Grammar schools are "failing" Southend (From Southend Standard)

Southend just doesn't have enough bright children. Good god, you only need to walk down the high street to realise that!

I have an SS1 postcode & all 3 of my sons passed their 11+. Two of them are already at Southend High & the youngest will be joining them in August. They all had to put the hours in to pass the 11+, but not as much as some who start getting ready for it in yr2.

Proud Southend parents at this house ;-)

No point in lowering Standards just to let in Southend students, although (and I find it hard to believe) letting students come from Ipswich is a bit silly.
I assume that Essex county council (or Suffolk) still have to fund the child regardless, its not as if all the funding is coming out of Southends budget to pay for children outside of the borough.

He said: “Southend does not have enough children, at this time, passing the 11-plus to take all of the places."

That wouldn't have anything to do with the primaries being heavily underfunded and overcrowded due to southend council constantly trying to cram more kids into schools rather than build new ones, meaning they have poorer quality educations and thus less of a chance in life, would it?

“Our grammar schools assist us with improving other local secondary schools, they teach teachers to teach, as well as making other contributions to the local community.”

How exactly are they improving other schools, other than taking the cream of the crop and leaving them with the rest?

My daughter is in year 2, and we are already thinking about 11+ preparation because we want the best for her future, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a better system for all kids.

The figures given are only for the two Westcliff High Schools. Are we right to presume that either the figures were not researchable for the two Southend High Schools, or that they are not failing locally? If the Southend High Schools are not the problem could the Echo please correct the story. The Grammar schools DO help with improving teaching by putting on courses for other local schools to send staff to. Some of these courses are with very effective communicators and trainers, bringing successful and innovative approaches to improving our children's learning. This improves the learning for all the schools. That's not a bad thing - is it? It is the kudos of the grammars that enables these training programmes to be brought into the town and made available.

I find the ipswich example hard to believe, are travelling there and back every day or renting in the local economy. Travelling means they drive past the best grammer schools in colchester. It also shows the length some parents will go to do the best for their kids .. a lesson for many round here.

The Ipswich example is quite believable if a little crazy! You only have to catch a London-bound train at about 4pm and they're full of children from out of borough going home - as far as Upminster!

Southend Schools aren't allowed to teach for the 11+ Parents have to either do it privately (which requires lots of spare money) or do it themselves (which needs lots of spare time).

Whilst we have the dual standard of schools that require it to enter - whilst being funded by the Borough - and pupils not prepared for the exam by the Borough's schools, then parents with money from outside the borough will continue to take advantage.

This isn't a new problem - it's been going on for ages.

As usual Southend Council have only just woken up to it.

If children from Southend can't get the opportunity that their parents' Council Tax and Central Government Taxes are funding in their own borough, why should they continue to subsidise children from outside the area?

the citizen wrote:
The figures given are only for the two Westcliff High Schools. Are we right to presume that either the figures were not researchable for the two Southend High Schools, or that they are not failing locally? If the Southend High Schools are not the problem could the Echo please correct the story. The Grammar schools DO help with improving teaching by putting on courses for other local schools to send staff to. Some of these courses are with very effective communicators and trainers, bringing successful and innovative approaches to improving our children's learning. This improves the learning for all the schools. That's not a bad thing - is it? It is the kudos of the grammars that enables these training programmes to be brought into the town and made available.

Southend High For Boys (and I guess it's the same for the the girl's school too) take 85% of their pupils from postoodes SS0 through to SS9.

Why is the headline 'Grammar schools are "failing" Southend'? Surely it's the primary schools who are the ones doing the failing.
If there are not enough children within the borough to fill the spaces, then one can only assume the catchment area (so to speak) will get larger.
I went to one of these schools, and admittedly was under the impression that it was the first 500-odd brightest kids in the borough who were selected, as opposed to them having a minimum requirement (which might mean that only 200 of the 500 brightest kids will gain entry).
Clearly the second option will mean that the overall standard will be even higher which is (presumably) the main goal of the school.
It is after all, the prerogative of the grammar school to be as selective of their pupils as they see fit.

Simple solution
1) Lower the required pass rate for Southend Residents (they already have to get less than outside the area)
2) Band the pass rate requried outside the area therefore allowing pupils that attend primary schools closer to southend a better chance. This will also remove the housing premium for being in Southend catchment.
3) Enusre you enforce the rules more strictly about location and catchment to ensure no cheating.
This will also have a knock on effect outside of Southend where southend parents fearful of not gettign a place are taking their children to other schools that have a number of places available via a selection exam and entering them. this would enable more talented pupils to go their from otehr catchment areas,

Although i do not agree with the principles of grammar school selection it does not mean that we shoud lower the standards so far that they become just schools with a catcment area. Lets work to get the other schools up to standard and then adjust again. Meanwhile lets be practical

Typing a bit fast HadleighBoy?

My child is in year 6 and is only now just covering in depth at school the maths etc required for the 11 plus. Unfortunately not all schools, within the Southend area, are interested and just provide a few VR papers in the 2 weeks leading up to the exam.

I find it a very unfair system where you get some schools (Westleigh in particular) and the private schools who gear the children for it from Year 3. What chance do children have who don't attend one of these schools. Even the brightest children find the eleven plus hard if they haven't 'trained' for it or covered half of the topics required for it.

Years ago, when I was a child, the eleven plus was much later (March I think) and they used to take age into account (like they do everywhere else in the country where there are grammar schools).

My child has been flying in year 6 and would most certainly have passed had we had a few months extra as well as not it not being immediately after the summer holidays of year 5.

It is a very very unfair system and personally I would rather they made it a fairer system locally where all schools have to put in the same amount of efford or get rid of it entirely.

Fair? Fair? Fair doesn't come into it. Ability, hard work and talent does.

That said, anyone educated in the last few years has benefitted from:

Ejerkayshun
Ejikayshern
Edu -err.........

The legacy of 'level playing fields' and 'entitlements'.

j-w wrote:
Typing a bit fast HadleighBoy?

Just a bit

It is the primary schools failing the youngsters. The problem seems to be with the individual views of the Head Teacher. Some years ago my son passed his eleven plus having attended Leigh North Street. This was despite the very obvious views of the Head who was firmly AGAINST the eleven plus selection. If memory serves me right, my son and one other got Southend Boys, one girl got Southend Girls and three other boys got Westcliff Boys. A pretty poor statistic if you ask me, especially when the same year more than thirty five Westleigh pupils gained places in one of the four Grammars.
Southend needs a joined up policy in the primary schools now otherwise they will continue to fail the brightest children who, remember are our future doctors, scientists, etc..

Shoeburylass wrote:
Why is the headline 'Grammar schools are "failing" Southend'? Surely it's the primary schools who are the ones doing the failing.
If there are not enough children within the borough to fill the spaces, then one can only assume the catchment area (so to speak) will get larger.
I went to one of these schools, and admittedly was under the impression that it was the first 500-odd brightest kids in the borough who were selected, as opposed to them having a minimum requirement (which might mean that only 200 of the 500 brightest kids will gain entry).
Clearly the second option will mean that the overall standard will be even higher which is (presumably) the main goal of the school.
It is after all, the prerogative of the grammar school to be as selective of their pupils as they see fit.

Sorry but the catchment area was expanded in response to the Labour introduced rules for voting out grammar schools.

The rules state that everyone in the area from which the pupils are drawn must be given a vote for or against the schools and there must be a minimum turnout.

Given that no one actually wanted rid of the schools expanding the area and hence the population who could vote. Obviously a large number of them wouldn't bother or wouldn't be interested so the minimum turnout wouldn't be passed.

There are plenty of children in the borough to fill the schools - we just need to ensure they get places in their own borough's schools rather than importing children from out of town. If people are that keen on their children getting a grammar school education, let them come and live here!

And if we've got that good schools in the Town, maybe some employers might follow!

Best schools, for the best pupils, if the locals don't pass the grade, give the places to outsiders, seems like a good thing.
Brains in Grammars
Thickos in comps

Most children need specific training in techniques to pass the 11 plus particularly the verbal reasoning part, if the primary schools do not provide this few will pass. Private schools of course provide plenty of this training as do private tutors and those without this input have little chance however bright they are.

“We are not doing enough to ensure our talented children are being taught here"
Grammar schools have to keep the high standard up therefore take only those that can keep up with the speed, depth and amount of academic subjects, that is why they have to take from outside. The answer is to improve the schools within the borough and then they can take more !

If you want your child to have a good education and are not monied you have to start looking and getting the child's name for a good school within a couple of months of the child being born. You then have to help and support them to be ready for learning at school. When they are at school you have to continue to help and support them with their school work and homework and if you are concerned they are not being stretched enough you make an appointment with the school and discuss your concerns. You need to make your child aware of the importance of learning at school. If your child shows an academic ability you have to support the child which means you have to be prepared to spend time with them and be prepared to travel further than the local school. Then if they are fortunate enough to get to a grammar school you have to continue supporting them with their education and then if they are fortunate enough to get to university (which is the academic aim of going to grammar school) you have to continue to support them emotionally and financially and this is when the really hard financial pressure comes into force.

The administrative education authority (SBC) are formed by a democratic electoral process to represent the children of Southend and their interests.. Not children from wealthy families who commute to school from Ipswich and Colchester..

End of debate.

jayman wrote:
The administrative education authority (SBC) are formed by a democratic electoral process to represent the children of Southend and their interests.. Not children from wealthy families who commute to school from Ipswich and Colchester..

End of debate.

End of debate? Who put you in charge. Show us where you can prove that children from outside of this area are those of the wealthy? You can't.

Another bitter jealous socialist by the sound of it.

I bet you didn't mind Bliar's brats going to Brompton Oratory or Dianne Fatbutt sending hers private did you.

'Don't do as we do, do as we say you plebs'

Meanwhile, have an A*+ in something useless because you spelt your name right (almost)
ejakayshun
ejikayshun
ed-u .....er.......

Vote Labour ! You know it (doesn't ) make sense.

Dadai1 wrote:
Most children need specific training in techniques to pass the 11 plus particularly the verbal reasoning part, if the primary schools do not provide this few will pass. Private schools of course provide plenty of this training as do private tutors and those without this input have little chance however bright they are.

This is the whole issue, some schools and parents focus purely on the passing of the 11+ other parents and schools either cannot afford to do so or want their children to learn more. Verbal reasoning is not the only measure of intelligence but is unfortuantley what is used just becasue you have passed the 11+ does not mean you are intellgent it means that you have been prgrammed to pass in a lot of cases.
It is a factory process with no other measure taken into account. Perhaps there should be discussions on how it would be possible to identify gifted children who do not have the resources to try out for the 11+ in the borough and have a way for them to be accepted.
Not all parents can afford to get their children tutoring or do not see the benefits this is not the childs fault.
As for children from outside the borough if you come from Ipswich you are not going to be able to afford the daily transport costs if you are on an average wage.
Grammar schools have a great teaching ethic that would benefit many otehr schools and this should not be destroyed but lets get more local children into the system if possible and make sure that the grammar schools that are paid for by southend residents are able to provide education to more local children.

Gosh I do love reading the comments on the Echo website sometimes!

Southend has a discretionally high number of grammar schools to the number of children in our primary schools - we have four grammar schools out of eight in Essex and 164 in England.
Therefore it is not surprising that all places are not filled by Southend children.

It is illegal for the grammar schools to set admissions criteria that state "Only children who live in the borough of Southend can attend our school."

Make sure you are sitting down before you read this next bit: I agree with (some of) Jayman's comments. I am elected to represent the residents of my ward and in particular and those in Southend generally. As the portfolio holder responsible for education I am here to ensure the best results for the children of Southend. Surely having the best schools we can in Southend does this!

The grammar schools do not "belong" to Southend. They are academy schools and answerable to the Secretary of State. They are not funded from Southend Council Tax. This does not mean that they are not doing their bit for Southend. I hope they will do more in the future.
Only last week Westcliff High School for Girls ran a maths class for geniuses from SOUTHEND primary schools. They provide employment for our residents and they each aspiring teachers. They offer activities to our community (e.g. language courses).

I hope that in the future our grammar schools will work closer with some of our primary, special and non-selective schools so that there can be a greater two-way information exchange between them.

But it must be remembered some parents do not want to send their child to a selective school. Not all children will be able enough to go to a selective school (by definition!), and therefore we need to have the best grammar and non-selective secondary schools. We also need the best primary and special schools we can have in the town. This is what we are trying to achieve - and I think our town's results show that it isn't an easy job but we are making good steady progress.

Gosh I do love reading the comments on the Echo website sometimes!

Southend has a discretionally high number of grammar schools to the number of children in our primary schools - we have four grammar schools out of eight in Essex and 164 in England.
Therefore it is not surprising that all places are not filled by Southend children.

It is illegal for the grammar schools to set admissions criteria that state "Only children who live in the borough of Southend can attend our school."

Make sure you are sitting down before you read this next bit: I agree with (some of) Jayman's comments. I am elected to represent the residents of my ward and in particular and those in Southend generally. As the portfolio holder responsible for education I am here to ensure the best results for the children of Southend. Surely having the best schools we can in Southend does this!

The grammar schools do not "belong" to Southend. They are academy schools and answerable to the Secretary of State. They are not funded from Southend Council Tax. This does not mean that they are not doing their bit for Southend. I hope they will do more in the future.
Only last week Westcliff High School for Girls ran a maths class for geniuses from SOUTHEND primary schools. They provide employment for our residents and they each aspiring teachers. They offer activities to our community (e.g. language courses).

I hope that in the future our grammar schools will work closer with some of our primary, special and non-selective schools so that there can be a greater two-way information exchange between them.

But it must be remembered some parents do not want to send their child to a selective school. Not all children will be able enough to go to a selective school (by definition!), and therefore we need to have the best grammar and non-selective secondary schools. We also need the best primary and special schools we can have in the town. This is what we are trying to achieve - and I think our town's results show that it isn't an easy job but we are making good steady progress.

CllrJamesCourtenay wrote:
Gosh I do love reading the comments on the Echo website sometimes! Southend has a discretionally high number of grammar schools to the number of children in our primary schools - we have four grammar schools out of eight in Essex and 164 in England. Therefore it is not surprising that all places are not filled by Southend children. It is illegal for the grammar schools to set admissions criteria that state "Only children who live in the borough of Southend can attend our school." Make sure you are sitting down before you read this next bit: I agree with (some of) Jayman's comments. I am elected to represent the residents of my ward and in particular and those in Southend generally. As the portfolio holder responsible for education I am here to ensure the best results for the children of Southend. Surely having the best schools we can in Southend does this! The grammar schools do not "belong" to Southend. They are academy schools and answerable to the Secretary of State. They are not funded from Southend Council Tax. This does not mean that they are not doing their bit for Southend. I hope they will do more in the future. Only last week Westcliff High School for Girls ran a maths class for geniuses from SOUTHEND primary schools. They provide employment for our residents and they each aspiring teachers. They offer activities to our community (e.g. language courses). I hope that in the future our grammar schools will work closer with some of our primary, special and non-selective schools so that there can be a greater two-way information exchange between them. But it must be remembered some parents do not want to send their child to a selective school. Not all children will be able enough to go to a selective school (by definition!), and therefore we need to have the best grammar and non-selective secondary schools. We also need the best primary and special schools we can have in the town. This is what we are trying to achieve - and I think our town's results show that it isn't an easy job but we are making good steady progress.

Cllr Courtenay
Nobody is disputing how good the High Schools are and if we are stuck with selective education then so be it. However at the moment for the various reasons identified in the posts there are some children within Southend that through no fault of their own are unable to get a place in a High School. This is not that they are academically challenged it is becaue they are not afforded the same cahnces to pass the 11+. Either becasue
a) The school they attend does not consider it worhtwhile to enter them on a matter of principle.
b) They come from families that cannot afford the private tutors used by other parents
c) They have parents that do not have the same aspirations that they could have
It is not right that a childs educational future is denied by other people. We should as a society look at ourselves and see how we can correct this imbalance.
No one is saying that all grammar school children should come form Southend but lets at least look at the reasons for the numbers we see. Then decide how can Grammar schools tap any talent that is left behind. Verbal reasoning is not the only measure of intelligence. but it is a measure that be tutored for so it is really an unfair measure.
Also again as I have previously stated the pass rate outside of the borough is higher but consideration should be given to changing the levels so that pupils closer to Soutend Authority have more chance. it is not right that people from as far away as Ipswich are travelling to school. It cannot be good for the child. If the policies were changed then perhaps there would then be less pressure on say King John School where a large number of people take the entrance exam a s ahedge against failure to get into Grammar school. If this happened then King John could take more more pupils locally from adjacent catchemnt areas.

Cllr Courtenay, as the portfolio holder responsible for education, I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools. My earlier post is a clear example of the fact that is seems to be down to the whim of the current Head Teacher

We deliberately chose not to get tutoring for our son in preparation for the 11+. We felt that if was unfair to cram feed him in preparation for an exam at such an early stage. We wanted him to pass or fail on the basis of his natural abilities. We would rather he failed than pass with tutoring and then struggle academically later on. Thankfully he passed well and is doing well at SHSB. Schools that drive their pupils for 11+ do not always serve them well.

I am glad to read in an earlier post that the Southend High Schools (Boys & Girls) are taking substantially higher numbers locally. This actually shows that the two Westcliff schools are not as popular locally. Perhaps they have a reputation that only the locals really understand. Our grammar schools are not the best performing in the county which is why pupils travel such distances because the more successful Grammar Schools in their own area are over subscribed. So Westcliff is the next on the list. Even I (as an old Westcliffian myself) was delighted that my son wanted to go to Southend. It was his choice, his preference. We were all very impressed with the school and it's ethos for a rounded education and life preparation - much pastorally stronger then my old school demonstrated on its open event. I think every primary child should have the opportunity, and headteachers convictions on the role of selection should not influence this opportunity. However, not every child suits the Grammar environment. Let's keep raising the standard of both primary and secondary in Southend so that regardless of which school is attended, the best is offered to our children.

CllrJamesCourtenay wrote:
Gosh I do love reading the comments on the Echo website sometimes!

Southend has a discretionally high number of grammar schools to the number of children in our primary schools - we have four grammar schools out of eight in Essex and 164 in England.
Therefore it is not surprising that all places are not filled by Southend children.

It is illegal for the grammar schools to set admissions criteria that state "Only children who live in the borough of Southend can attend our school."

Make sure you are sitting down before you read this next bit: I agree with (some of) Jayman's comments. I am elected to represent the residents of my ward and in particular and those in Southend generally. As the portfolio holder responsible for education I am here to ensure the best results for the children of Southend. Surely having the best schools we can in Southend does this!

The grammar schools do not "belong" to Southend. They are academy schools and answerable to the Secretary of State. They are not funded from Southend Council Tax. This does not mean that they are not doing their bit for Southend. I hope they will do more in the future.
Only last week Westcliff High School for Girls ran a maths class for geniuses from SOUTHEND primary schools. They provide employment for our residents and they each aspiring teachers. They offer activities to our community (e.g. language courses).

I hope that in the future our grammar schools will work closer with some of our primary, special and non-selective schools so that there can be a greater two-way information exchange between them.

But it must be remembered some parents do not want to send their child to a selective school. Not all children will be able enough to go to a selective school (by definition!), and therefore we need to have the best grammar and non-selective secondary schools. We also need the best primary and special schools we can have in the town. This is what we are trying to achieve - and I think our town's results show that it isn't an easy job but we are making good steady progress.

"As the portfolio holder responsible for education I am here to ensure the best results for the children of Southend. Surely having the best schools we can in Southend does this!"

Southend has had grammar schools for decades... I'm still waiting to find the evidence that the presence of four grammar schools has any benefit whatsoever to the surrounding state schools.

The courses you mention and the community participation of southends grammar schools are afterthoughts and piecemeal.

schools should have the power to refer gifted pupils to southends grammar schools directly without the need for an 11+ exam within the current framework of the 'gifted and talented register'

The 11+ is just an unscientific method of maintaining a dichotomy for the benefit middle income family's without recognising ability in its many forms..

Rochford Rob wrote:

jayman wrote:
The administrative education authority (SBC) are formed by a democratic electoral process to represent the children of Southend and their interests.. Not children from wealthy families who commute to school from Ipswich and Colchester..

End of debate.

End of debate? Who put you in charge. Show us where you can prove that children from outside of this area are those of the wealthy? You can't.

Another bitter jealous socialist by the sound of it.

I bet you didn't mind Bliar's brats going to Brompton Oratory or Dianne Fatbutt sending hers private did you.

'Don't do as we do, do as we say you plebs'

Meanwhile, have an A*+ in something useless because you spelt your name right (almost)
ejakayshun
ejikayshun
ed-u .....er.......

Vote Labour ! You know it (doesn't ) make sense.

The sheer costs involved in sending a child to southends grammar schools and home again from Ipswich (read above article) is an indicator of the level of 'wealthy family' to which I was referring to.

It's very straight forward...pass the 11 plus and you can get in!

It's not that the primaries are underfunded, but rather staffed with a high level of incompetents. My children went to Bournes Green and while some of the teachers were excellent many had rudimentary gaps in the 3Rs.

Our children like many others there went on the exceed but they were tutored by parents who also sacrificed much to afford additional private tuition.

So now they are at Southend High and doing very well, the teaching is similar to that from the Primaries, ie homework not marked for several weeks....all in all, they have driven themselves to be as good as they can be, so if we believe in excellence and a system where we promote ability then the status quo remains.

Of course the bleeding heart society will gnash their teeth in discust but my advice is to give up the ciggies, turn off towie, open up your children's books and work with them to succeed.

The citizen is right in that not all children do well in grammar schools, some do better being the big fish in a small pool. Surely it is reasonable however that all the primaries shoud provide a reasonable level of teaching for the 11 plus so the bright children attending them at least have a chance of passing. Other areas such as Kent are looking at reducing the importance of verbal reasoning in the exam as it is so easy to coach for, Essex should be looking at moving towards a more IQ based assessment as well.

stopmoaning1 wrote:
Cllr Courtenay, as the portfolio holder responsible for education, I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools. My earlier post is a clear example of the fact that is seems to be down to the whim of the current Head Teacher

Mmm, thought not.

What a shame Southend retains that divisive and invidious system which sorts out children at the age of 11 into successes and failures.
Fortunately both my children, had far more important traits and attributes than just academic ones and were able to beat the system. One went to University, both have high flying jobs and very successful in their private and professional lives. No thanks to a system which had labelled them failures when young children

The sheer costs involved in sending a child to southends grammar schools and home again from Ipswich (read above article) is an indicator of the level of 'wealthy family' to which I was referring to.

No, you have just made a wild sweeping innacurate assumption. It may well cost what, 3K pa for rail fare from Ipswich to Southend. Maybe many parents are willing to make sacrifices for the benefit of their children.

They can afford the train ergo they are rich. I don't like rich people.

Not a very nice trait.

I remember many years ago, a friend of mine who passed the 11+, choosing to go to Southend because they played Football. His nearest school (Rayleigh Sweyne) only played rugby. Perhaps they thought rugby was a bit more up-market ?

Antonius wrote:
I remember many years ago, a friend of mine who passed the 11+, choosing to go to Southend because they played Football. His nearest school (Rayleigh Sweyne) only played rugby. Perhaps they thought rugby was a bit more up-market ?

Utter rubbish - Rayleigh Sweyne has always played football and has historically been one of the better schools at the game around.

Secondary schools in Rayleigh are generally very good.

stopmoaning1 wrote:

stopmoaning1 wrote: Cllr Courtenay, as the portfolio holder responsible for education, I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools. My earlier post is a clear example of the fact that is seems to be down to the whim of the current Head Teacher

Mmm, thought not.

Or perhaps if you gave me more than 23hrs 24 minutes to respond before moaning ironic given your username!) You might be lucky and get a response.

The decision as to whether to put a child in for the 11+ lies, rightly, with the parents. I ask all schools to encourage those pupils who they think are suitable for grammar school to take the test. But at the end of the day it is down to parents to choose.

Schools have a lot less influences than they did in my day, when I say the paper in front of my head teacher, during the normal school day. Now you take it on a Saturday away from your own school.

Still more does need to be done to strengthen the links between the primary and grammar schools, and some of that it down to the grammar schools as well as the primaries themselves.

Still forgive me if I'm spending more time on our non selective schools, where the large majority of our children go and ensuring we see the continued closing of the gap between our grammar and non grammar schools. This will surely be the best for Southend's kids.

CllrJamesCourtenay wrote:

stopmoaning1 wrote:

stopmoaning1 wrote: Cllr Courtenay, as the portfolio holder responsible for education, I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools. My earlier post is a clear example of the fact that is seems to be down to the whim of the current Head Teacher

Mmm, thought not.

Or perhaps if you gave me more than 23hrs 24 minutes to respond before moaning ironic given your username!) You might be lucky and get a response.

The decision as to whether to put a child in for the 11+ lies, rightly, with the parents. I ask all schools to encourage those pupils who they think are suitable for grammar school to take the test. But at the end of the day it is down to parents to choose.

Schools have a lot less influences than they did in my day, when I say the paper in front of my head teacher, during the normal school day. Now you take it on a Saturday away from your own school.

Still more does need to be done to strengthen the links between the primary and grammar schools, and some of that it down to the grammar schools as well as the primaries themselves.

Still forgive me if I'm spending more time on our non selective schools, where the large majority of our children go and ensuring we see the continued closing of the gap between our grammar and non grammar schools. This will surely be the best for Southend's kids.

Apologies for my impatience.

I thank you for your reply although I am somewhat surprised by the sarcastic tone used in your opening paragraph. Not what I expected from a local councillor.

Possibly what I did expect was the skirting around the question which was, “I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools”

As a parent of two, one of which took and passed the eleven plus and one who did not take it, I am fully aware that it the parents ultimate choice. My question relates to a standard schools policy, which identifies the children likely to do succeed and promotes the eleven plus to the children and parents. In my case the head was very firmly against the eleven plus and left us parents having to do all the running around and preparation ourselves. (Nothing we begrudged doing for our children) Having younger nieces and nephews still at the same school, nothing has changed.

It is true that not all children are in a position to pass the eleven plus and they can’t all go to grammar schools, but why not have a policy that actually ASSISTS those who can, rather than leaving it to the choice of the individual Head Teacher to in our case, actually try to deter us if they do not believe in the system themselves.

CllrJamesCourtenay wrote:

stopmoaning1 wrote:

stopmoaning1 wrote: Cllr Courtenay, as the portfolio holder responsible for education, I wonder if you would take this opportunity to explain why the eleven plus is not the norm in most of the boroughs primary schools. My earlier post is a clear example of the fact that is seems to be down to the whim of the current Head Teacher

Mmm, thought not.

Or perhaps if you gave me more than 23hrs 24 minutes to respond before moaning ironic given your username!) You might be lucky and get a response. The decision as to whether to put a child in for the 11+ lies, rightly, with the parents. I ask all schools to encourage those pupils who they think are suitable for grammar school to take the test. But at the end of the day it is down to parents to choose. Schools have a lot less influences than they did in my day, when I say the paper in front of my head teacher, during the normal school day. Now you take it on a Saturday away from your own school. Still more does need to be done to strengthen the links between the primary and grammar schools, and some of that it down to the grammar schools as well as the primaries themselves. Still forgive me if I'm spending more time on our non selective schools, where the large majority of our children go and ensuring we see the continued closing of the gap between our grammar and non grammar schools. This will surely be the best for Southend's kids.

Great to see a Cllr actually engaging with the public. I am glad to hear that you are aiming to close the gap between grammar and non grammar schools, this is indeed the right thing to do. My concern is that this is a long term goal, this will not support the gifted children of the next few years as it is like trying to turn a supertanker. Encouraging the local grammars to change their selection policy to favour more local children and consider removing the train to the test issues with the current 11+ will go some way to solving this issue.
I think sometimes that we lose sight of the objective of educaiton policy and that is children unfortunatley debating and discussion that takes a long time means that more children slip though the process and miss out on oppurtunities. A more practical approach is sometime needed.

I have 2 children, one at the local comp and the other at a southend grammar. Both doing well, both working hard and both love their school. Your child's education is what they and you make it.

smiffy1980 wrote:

Antonius wrote:
I remember many years ago, a friend of mine who passed the 11+, choosing to go to Southend because they played Football. His nearest school (Rayleigh Sweyne) only played rugby. Perhaps they thought rugby was a bit more up-market ?

Utter rubbish - Rayleigh Sweyne has always played football and has historically been one of the better schools at the game around.

Secondary schools in Rayleigh are generally very good.

If you passed your 11+ and played football, you chose Southend not Westcliff, where they only played rugby (in the 70's).