Jodie Fields, 20, saw four GPs over several weeks, an inquest heard

Southend Standard: Jodie Fields with her mum Karen Jodie Fields with her mum Karen

A YOUNG woman who died of "sudden adult death syndrome" sought medical help for nearly three months before her death, an inquest heard.

Jodie Fields, 20, from Glendale Gardens, Leigh, complained of shortness of breath, rapid heart beat and other ailments to four GPs in the run up to her untimely death following heart failure.

Chelmsford Coroners Court heard yesterday that due to ambulance shortages paramedics were dispatched from Basildon Hospital and took 24 minutes to get to her home after the vehicle's sat nav sent it off course.

The court heard Miss Fields visited Queensway Surgery in Sutherland Boulevard, Leigh, on February 23, 2012 after fainting at university, saying she was short of breath and had a racing heart.

She saw four GPs over several weeks, including one who had been placed under supervision by the General Medical Council, after his record keeping was brought into question.

The medics concluded her high pulse rate was put down to anxiety and stress of moving home, and it was not until a fifth appointment on May 15 that she was referred to a heart specialist.

But she died five days later after suffering cardiac arrest at home.

She was found unconscious by sister Kirsty Fields at 9.05pm on May 20.

Ross Dixon, an East of England emergency care practitioner, arrived at 9.12pm, but with no ambulance he was only able to give basic life support using an oxygen mask.

At 9.18pm, he requested ambulance assistance, but the court heard an ambulance didn’t arrive from Basildon until 9.42pm after the crew got lost when a sat nav sent them the wrong way up a one-way-street.

Mr Dixon said Jodie was initially writhing on a mattress on the floor, but by 9.24pm she became unresponsive with no pulse.

She received adrenaline at 9.47pm, but was pronounced dead at the scene at 10.03pm.

Pathologist Konrad Wolfe from Southend Hospital gave the cause of death as sudden adult death syndrome, as the post mortem found the heart largely undamaged.

However, he said small blood clots had been identified in a chamber on the right side of the heart, with some fluid on the lungs and a trace of blood.

There was also a small blood clot found on her left calf.

Under cross examination by legal representatives acting for the Fields family, he conceded the clots were "probably related" to a "more longstanding cardio problem that pre-dated her death”, such as a disturbance in the normal heart rhythm.

The legal counsel also said Jodie should have been referred to a specialist from the outset and asked that the court investigate further to try to prevent future similar deaths.

However, Dr Patrick Heck, a heart specialist, who was commissioned to investigate the care Jodie received, exonerated the actions of all four medics and said it was not certain that further investigation would have found an underlying problem.

The coroner, Caroline Beasley-Murray, accepted the reports of Drs Heck and Wolf that the cause of death was sudden adult death syndrome and gave a verdict of natural causes.

She said: "The court accepts (both experts) findings and will be writing sudden adult death syndrome."

Turning to Jodie's family she added: "Not only have you lost a much loved daughter and sister, you have had the ordeal of listening to this harrowing evidence and have done that with dignity."

Jodie’s family were too upset to comment.

Comments (25)

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2:39pm Mon 24 Mar 14

AliciaSS says...

Beautiful girl. RIP x
Beautiful girl. RIP x AliciaSS
  • Score: 40

4:11pm Mon 24 Mar 14

runwellian says...

Such a waste of a young life, I have similar problems and was put on statins, they change my life.

Ifs and buts can do nothing now but what a heartbreaking situation for the family, so young, so beautiful, how earth does on coem to terms with that!
Such a waste of a young life, I have similar problems and was put on statins, they change my life. Ifs and buts can do nothing now but what a heartbreaking situation for the family, so young, so beautiful, how earth does on coem to terms with that! runwellian
  • Score: 31

4:24pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Mikkel1 says...

Too many doctors are getting things wrong these days. MORE care and attention to details are needed.

My last wife was diagnosed with Cancer, given months not years to live, but was gone in under 36 HOURS.

This young lady was Beautiful, and my heart goes out to her family.
Too many doctors are getting things wrong these days. MORE care and attention to details are needed. My last wife was diagnosed with Cancer, given months not years to live, but was gone in under 36 HOURS. This young lady was Beautiful, and my heart goes out to her family. Mikkel1
  • Score: 31

5:46pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Idontknowy says...

My thoughts go to the family in this tragic case.
My thoughts go to the family in this tragic case. Idontknowy
  • Score: 17

6:08pm Mon 24 Mar 14

TheaWells says...

Mikkel1 wrote:
Too many doctors are getting things wrong these days. MORE care and attention to details are needed.

My last wife was diagnosed with Cancer, given months not years to live, but was gone in under 36 HOURS.

This young lady was Beautiful, and my heart goes out to her family.
So sorry to hear that ((( hug )))

Such a sad story to read.. I have been battling with the GP's to do thorough tests on me for 4 months but they dilly dally...Last time I felt like this 2 years ago they dilly dallied for 6 months and then they found a tumour, removed it but are now again saying my symptoms are stress. Just like they did when I insisted they check me using MRI and they found the tumour.
It seems we have to have a total tantrum and threaten legal action for the GP's to refer us for checks.. this young lady should have had ALL the tests they could do first before ruling it out as stress.

I just hope mine is just stress this time and not another tumour :-(

If you REALLY feel something is wrong... chances are it is and I dont care how much it costs the NHS to check us over.. that's what we pay NI for.... insist they send you for tests.
[quote][p][bold]Mikkel1[/bold] wrote: Too many doctors are getting things wrong these days. MORE care and attention to details are needed. My last wife was diagnosed with Cancer, given months not years to live, but was gone in under 36 HOURS. This young lady was Beautiful, and my heart goes out to her family.[/p][/quote]So sorry to hear that ((( hug ))) Such a sad story to read.. I have been battling with the GP's to do thorough tests on me for 4 months but they dilly dally...Last time I felt like this 2 years ago they dilly dallied for 6 months and then they found a tumour, removed it but are now again saying my symptoms are stress. Just like they did when I insisted they check me using MRI and they found the tumour. It seems we have to have a total tantrum and threaten legal action for the GP's to refer us for checks.. this young lady should have had ALL the tests they could do first before ruling it out as stress. I just hope mine is just stress this time and not another tumour :-( If you REALLY feel something is wrong... chances are it is and I dont care how much it costs the NHS to check us over.. that's what we pay NI for.... insist they send you for tests. TheaWells
  • Score: 26

6:44pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Miss Southchurch says...

I'm sorry but isn't this story getting just a little too common?? She had been seeking medical advice for 4 months prior to death, they dismiss it as 'anxiety', probably due to her young age, and this poor girl ends up dying?? It's a disgrace!! How was it 'Sudden' adult death syndrome when there was obviously a build up to it? It reminds me of that of that other tragic and recent story, of the girl who begged for a cervical smear test, time and time again, was refused, and ended up dying of cervical cancer at 19. I think the medical profession needs to wake up to the fact that 'too young' people CAN still get serious illnesses, as has been shown here!
I'm sorry but isn't this story getting just a little too common?? She had been seeking medical advice for 4 months prior to death, they dismiss it as 'anxiety', probably due to her young age, and this poor girl ends up dying?? It's a disgrace!! How was it 'Sudden' adult death syndrome when there was obviously a build up to it? It reminds me of that of that other tragic and recent story, of the girl who begged for a cervical smear test, time and time again, was refused, and ended up dying of cervical cancer at 19. I think the medical profession needs to wake up to the fact that 'too young' people CAN still get serious illnesses, as has been shown here! Miss Southchurch
  • Score: 33

9:31pm Mon 24 Mar 14

cgb says...

You could all have unlimited tests at unlimited costs if you want to pay an extortionate amount of tax. Otherwise medical evidence will tell doctors what tests they need to do- most ECGs for adult with heart conditions are NORMAL. You have no medical training but think you have the ability to pass comment and judge those who do???? Who is the arrogant one now?????
Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!!

FACT - sometimes people die of things that cannot be predicted and therefore prevented! Sad but true.
You could all have unlimited tests at unlimited costs if you want to pay an extortionate amount of tax. Otherwise medical evidence will tell doctors what tests they need to do- most ECGs for adult with heart conditions are NORMAL. You have no medical training but think you have the ability to pass comment and judge those who do???? Who is the arrogant one now????? Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!! FACT - sometimes people die of things that cannot be predicted and therefore prevented! Sad but true. cgb
  • Score: -17

9:52pm Mon 24 Mar 14

Almeda11 says...

cgb wrote:
You could all have unlimited tests at unlimited costs if you want to pay an extortionate amount of tax. Otherwise medical evidence will tell doctors what tests they need to do- most ECGs for adult with heart conditions are NORMAL. You have no medical training but think you have the ability to pass comment and judge those who do???? Who is the arrogant one now????? Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!! FACT - sometimes people die of things that cannot be predicted and therefore prevented! Sad but true.
YOU are the arrogant one, not me.
l come from a medical family, my mother was a nurse and my nephew is a newly qualified doctor. l myself have some medical knowledge.
You do not need to be a doctor to know that the things that KEEP happening are wrong, and symptoms such as are described in this article should have been investigated further, even more compelling to do so because she was so young.
And people in the uk DO PAY for the nhs, it is NOT free, people pay through their taxes and national insurance contributions, as they do in the EU.
The difference beince being that there you get much better healthcare than in the uk !!
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: You could all have unlimited tests at unlimited costs if you want to pay an extortionate amount of tax. Otherwise medical evidence will tell doctors what tests they need to do- most ECGs for adult with heart conditions are NORMAL. You have no medical training but think you have the ability to pass comment and judge those who do???? Who is the arrogant one now????? Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!! FACT - sometimes people die of things that cannot be predicted and therefore prevented! Sad but true.[/p][/quote]YOU are the arrogant one, not me. l come from a medical family, my mother was a nurse and my nephew is a newly qualified doctor. l myself have some medical knowledge. You do not need to be a doctor to know that the things that KEEP happening are wrong, and symptoms such as are described in this article should have been investigated further, even more compelling to do so because she was so young. And people in the uk DO PAY for the nhs, it is NOT free, people pay through their taxes and national insurance contributions, as they do in the EU. The difference beince being that there you get much better healthcare than in the uk !! Almeda11
  • Score: 28

1:34pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Dan-Hockley says...

This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child.

However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know.

GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions.

I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do.

I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court.

I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen.

I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive.
This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child. However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know. GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions. I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do. I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court. I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen. I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive. Dan-Hockley
  • Score: -14

6:55pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Hannah Foster says...

I attended the same surgery as this poor lady and I can honestly say that I have found the doctors attitudes to be arrogant and patronising in the extreme so I went elsewhere. Yes, they may be over stretched and be low on funds but they are not going to be significantly worse than any other comparable surgery in the town and I have yet to encounter similar poor care elsewhere. I have to say that in 12 years I saw one doctor that I would recommend. I have been reduced to tears by their approach. Some years ago I was in absolute agony with gallstones and I couldn't stand up straight was vomiting black muck and white as a sheet and I was told to 'calm myself down' I was not hysterical, I was in pain. It took several attempts for them to refer me for tests and they gave no pain relief but I was too timid to put my foot down.
I will not even start on the farce that is their repeat prescription system.
This poor family have my absolute sympathy. The job of the GP is no doubt challenging and I am sure at times frustrating but I know too many people who have lost loved ones and suffered just because no one will listen and take their concerns seriously which is not acceptable. Of course tragedies will happen and most sensible people understand this. It feels to me that even though we do pay for the service we receive we are being treated more and more as an inconvenience for using our healthcare system.
I attended the same surgery as this poor lady and I can honestly say that I have found the doctors attitudes to be arrogant and patronising in the extreme so I went elsewhere. Yes, they may be over stretched and be low on funds but they are not going to be significantly worse than any other comparable surgery in the town and I have yet to encounter similar poor care elsewhere. I have to say that in 12 years I saw one doctor that I would recommend. I have been reduced to tears by their approach. Some years ago I was in absolute agony with gallstones and I couldn't stand up straight was vomiting black muck and white as a sheet and I was told to 'calm myself down' I was not hysterical, I was in pain. It took several attempts for them to refer me for tests and they gave no pain relief but I was too timid to put my foot down. I will not even start on the farce that is their repeat prescription system. This poor family have my absolute sympathy. The job of the GP is no doubt challenging and I am sure at times frustrating but I know too many people who have lost loved ones and suffered just because no one will listen and take their concerns seriously which is not acceptable. Of course tragedies will happen and most sensible people understand this. It feels to me that even though we do pay for the service we receive we are being treated more and more as an inconvenience for using our healthcare system. Hannah Foster
  • Score: 15

7:36pm Tue 25 Mar 14

Almeda11 says...

Dan-Hockley wrote:
This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child. However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know. GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions. I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do. I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court. I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen. I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive.
Dan,

l recognise that many doctors do a good job and my argument is not with them.

But everyone knows, through the news on tv, Staffordshire Hospital for instance, where an EXTRA 1200 patients died through neglect, bad practices, nurses who either didn`t know how to use life saving equipment, or it was dirty, broken ect, patients left lying in their own faeces ect, ect, ect.

Not to mention the steady stream of stories we KEEP hearing about, such as the one l highlighted in my previous post, these are all too common and are completely unacceptable. My own mother recently was told a doctor was " on his way" they even said my mother was the next patient. He still hadn`t called 2 hours later and l found out later he`d gone off at midnight. From then on we had to wait another 2 hours, in total from beginning to end it was 8 hours, and he finally turned up at 2-20 in the morning !

Compare that to last year in Germany, when we unfortunately had reason to call a doctor, he was there within 1/2 an hour !! NO comparison between here and there.

We also have a far too subservient attitude in this country to doctors, on the continent patients are treated very much as equals and doctors there do not mind people asking questions, here they get all defensive about it, which is something l HATE, it shows an arrogant yet insecure individual who can`t handle people and their emotions, and should be working somewhere else as far as l am concerned, doctors like this we don`t need.

Even research has shown that it is often the RELATIONSHIP between doctor and patient that be one of the most important aspect in patient care and patient outcomes, yet too many patients dread going to their doctors because they know in advance what to expect, an arrogant and disbelieving attitude. l have read, over the years of COUNTLESS cases like that, where doctors have simply chosen to ignore symptoms and instead of tests have prescribed painkillers, l personally know of a lady who was told " oh it`s indigestion" a couple of years later she was dead, of cancer, because the lazy, couldn`t be bothered b ------d, just couldn`t be bothered !!
And, as for going, as in this current case, by medical evidence, well there were only symptoms, symptoms which, IF they had been thoroughly investigated, would have provided the medical evidence needed, but AFTER, not before, that wouldn`t have been possible.
[quote][p][bold]Dan-Hockley[/bold] wrote: This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child. However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know. GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions. I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do. I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court. I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen. I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive.[/p][/quote]Dan, l recognise that many doctors do a good job and my argument is not with them. But everyone knows, through the news on tv, Staffordshire Hospital for instance, where an EXTRA 1200 patients died through neglect, bad practices, nurses who either didn`t know how to use life saving equipment, or it was dirty, broken ect, patients left lying in their own faeces ect, ect, ect. Not to mention the steady stream of stories we KEEP hearing about, such as the one l highlighted in my previous post, these are all too common and are completely unacceptable. My own mother recently was told a doctor was " on his way" they even said my mother was the next patient. He still hadn`t called 2 hours later and l found out later he`d gone off at midnight. From then on we had to wait another 2 hours, in total from beginning to end it was 8 hours, and he finally turned up at 2-20 in the morning ! Compare that to last year in Germany, when we unfortunately had reason to call a doctor, he was there within 1/2 an hour !! NO comparison between here and there. We also have a far too subservient attitude in this country to doctors, on the continent patients are treated very much as equals and doctors there do not mind people asking questions, here they get all defensive about it, which is something l HATE, it shows an arrogant yet insecure individual who can`t handle people and their emotions, and should be working somewhere else as far as l am concerned, doctors like this we don`t need. Even research has shown that it is often the RELATIONSHIP between doctor and patient that be one of the most important aspect in patient care and patient outcomes, yet too many patients dread going to their doctors because they know in advance what to expect, an arrogant and disbelieving attitude. l have read, over the years of COUNTLESS cases like that, where doctors have simply chosen to ignore symptoms and instead of tests have prescribed painkillers, l personally know of a lady who was told " oh it`s indigestion" a couple of years later she was dead, of cancer, because the lazy, couldn`t be bothered b ------d, just couldn`t be bothered !! And, as for going, as in this current case, by medical evidence, well there were only symptoms, symptoms which, IF they had been thoroughly investigated, would have provided the medical evidence needed, but AFTER, not before, that wouldn`t have been possible. Almeda11
  • Score: 12

9:28pm Tue 25 Mar 14

cgb says...

Amelda11
Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives'
The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame.
If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good.
It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days.
Amelda11 Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives' The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame. If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good. It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days. cgb
  • Score: -14

9:37am Wed 26 Mar 14

Hannah Foster says...

cgb wrote:
Amelda11
Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives'
The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame.
If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good.
It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days.
It has nothing to do with ordering every random test under the sun though does it? Her symptoms were very clear in the echo, and people admitted that the test results in some of the preliminary tests were not able to read properly. So a young woman with those sorts of symptoms and any question mark over such basic investigations MUST be investigated further, or at least so as to get a clear picture of what can be safely put to one side. The symptoms would rule out very many things and rule other possibilities in. THAT IS THE THE JOB OF A GP. If they can't get to the bottom of it they must refer.
People giving examples of their concerns about poor care at the surgery concerned should act as a warning that something may be wrong with the way doctors are dealing with people. I believe the government inspectors of GP surgeries have recently uncovered some shocking failures with GP practices, so do we look to rectify these or just write off deaths as inconsequential? They all add up and eventually we will end up paying the price. By not confronting these issues the NHS will be left to fall apart and then we will be like America where only the well off get a chance at receiving medical care.
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: Amelda11 Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives' The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame. If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good. It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days.[/p][/quote]It has nothing to do with ordering every random test under the sun though does it? Her symptoms were very clear in the echo, and people admitted that the test results in some of the preliminary tests were not able to read properly. So a young woman with those sorts of symptoms and any question mark over such basic investigations MUST be investigated further, or at least so as to get a clear picture of what can be safely put to one side. The symptoms would rule out very many things and rule other possibilities in. THAT IS THE THE JOB OF A GP. If they can't get to the bottom of it they must refer. People giving examples of their concerns about poor care at the surgery concerned should act as a warning that something may be wrong with the way doctors are dealing with people. I believe the government inspectors of GP surgeries have recently uncovered some shocking failures with GP practices, so do we look to rectify these or just write off deaths as inconsequential? They all add up and eventually we will end up paying the price. By not confronting these issues the NHS will be left to fall apart and then we will be like America where only the well off get a chance at receiving medical care. Hannah Foster
  • Score: 9

9:44am Wed 26 Mar 14

Almeda11 says...

cgb wrote:
Amelda11 Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives' The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame. If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good. It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days.
cgb ---- thanks for calling me " thick" however, anyone who has to resort to personal insults and cannot debate sensibly has already lost the argument, and the number of down arrows for you should prove that, the vast majority of people on here do not agree with you!!

And you seriously believe that the " experts" don`t make mistakes. They do, and quite often too. l presume you read the newspapers, info online and news on the tv? Because, listening to someone like you, you seem to live in cloud cukoo land, or the land of the rose tinted specs. and a legal claims background, Hm, dubious, and you can choose, if you wish, which you obviously do that my "relatives" are not as l say but l can assure you they are.

You sound not only arrogant yourself but ignorant too. lf you were not you would know that an ECG test is done on people with arrhythmia, which is often present in sudden cardiac death.

And, of course, you would NEVER have the guts to say that to my face would you? that is what l despise about these keyboard cowards, they can only insult online, pathetic really.

And you said, in an earlier comment:
"Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!! "

WHAT medical evidence? there were only symptoms, symptoms which, IF they had been thoroughly investigated, would have provided the medical evidence needed, but AFTER, not before, that wouldn`t have been possible.

lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated.

You may be at risk, if you have:

A family history of unexplained death
Breathlessness on effort.
Chest pain on effort.
Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause
Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting.
Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*).
If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP).
Investigations for possible heart problems include:

Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history.
ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive.
Other more specialised tests may be neededsuch as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI)

Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated.

What Is Sudden Cardiac Arrest?
sudden cardiac arrest is due to an "electrical" problem in the heart. It happens when electrical signals that control the heart's pumping ability essentially short-circuit. Suddenly, the heart may beat dangerously fast, causing the heart's ventricles -- its main pumping chambers -- to quiver or flutter instead of pumping blood in a coordinated fashion. This rhythm disturbance, called ventricular fibrillation, "occurs in response to an underlying heart condition that may or may not have been detected," Lawless says.

Ventricular fibrillation disrupts the heart's pumping action, stopping blood flow to the rest of the body. A person in sudden cardiac arrest will collapse suddenly and lose consciousness, with no pulse or breathing

Hope this is enough evidence for you, this death WAS preventable, and there is a WEALTH of information, from various MEDICAL sources online to back this up, lF you find evidence to the contrary please put it on here so everyone can see it!! these tests that CAN and SHOULD have been done, and if you are so stupid as to deny that then you may as well deny that day is day and night is night, or take up your soap box in Hyde park, as avengingangel 2 suggested, although l`m sure it`s easier for you on here, as it`s anonymous!!
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: Amelda11 Don be thick- yes we all pay taxes but if you want everyone to get every possible test you are going to have to pay a huge amount more. There is already huge rationing in the NHS. I have a huge medico/ legal/ claim background and would wager I understand a **** site more than you and your 'relatives' The fact remains is that the experts who heard all the evidence have found no blame. If people wish to keep spouting forth anecdotal unevidenced comments then go ahead. It will do you absolutely no good. It's a very sad story that a young person has died but you are frankly deluded if you think that every life can be saved by randomly ordering every possible test under the sun just in case- the NHS would be bankrupted in weeks if not days.[/p][/quote]cgb ---- thanks for calling me " thick" however, anyone who has to resort to personal insults and cannot debate sensibly has already lost the argument, and the number of down arrows for you should prove that, the vast majority of people on here do not agree with you!! And you seriously believe that the " experts" don`t make mistakes. They do, and quite often too. l presume you read the newspapers, info online and news on the tv? Because, listening to someone like you, you seem to live in cloud cukoo land, or the land of the rose tinted specs. and a legal claims background, Hm, dubious, and you can choose, if you wish, which you obviously do that my "relatives" are not as l say but l can assure you they are. You sound not only arrogant yourself but ignorant too. lf you were not you would know that an ECG test is done on people with arrhythmia, which is often present in sudden cardiac death. And, of course, you would NEVER have the guts to say that to my face would you? that is what l despise about these keyboard cowards, they can only insult online, pathetic really. And you said, in an earlier comment: "Wake up people -the person who listened to all the evidence in a factual matter was the coroner and she exonerated all the doctors involved!!! " WHAT medical evidence? there were only symptoms, symptoms which, IF they had been thoroughly investigated, would have provided the medical evidence needed, but AFTER, not before, that wouldn`t have been possible. lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated. You may be at risk, if you have: A family history of unexplained death Breathlessness on effort. Chest pain on effort. Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting. Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*). If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP). Investigations for possible heart problems include: Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history. ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive. Other more specialised tests may be neededsuch as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI) Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated. What Is Sudden Cardiac Arrest? sudden cardiac arrest is due to an "electrical" problem in the heart. It happens when electrical signals that control the heart's pumping ability essentially short-circuit. Suddenly, the heart may beat dangerously fast, causing the heart's ventricles -- its main pumping chambers -- to quiver or flutter instead of pumping blood in a coordinated fashion. This rhythm disturbance, called ventricular fibrillation, "occurs in response to an underlying heart condition that may or may not have been detected," Lawless says. Ventricular fibrillation disrupts the heart's pumping action, stopping blood flow to the rest of the body. A person in sudden cardiac arrest will collapse suddenly and lose consciousness, with no pulse or breathing Hope this is enough evidence for you, this death WAS preventable, and there is a WEALTH of information, from various MEDICAL sources online to back this up, lF you find evidence to the contrary please put it on here so everyone can see it!! these tests that CAN and SHOULD have been done, and if you are so stupid as to deny that then you may as well deny that day is day and night is night, or take up your soap box in Hyde park, as avengingangel 2 suggested, although l`m sure it`s easier for you on here, as it`s anonymous!! Almeda11
  • Score: 7

7:46pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Paphos97 says...

A sad story... Can the other members of the family who are under the age of 35, please contact the charity organisation CRY (Cardiac Risk in the Young), they may offer to screen for any congenital problems that unfortunately are only found after tragic events like this. God Bless Jodie & RIP
www.c-r-y.org.uk
A sad story... Can the other members of the family who are under the age of 35, please contact the charity organisation CRY (Cardiac Risk in the Young), they may offer to screen for any congenital problems that unfortunately are only found after tragic events like this. God Bless Jodie & RIP www.c-r-y.org.uk Paphos97
  • Score: 6

8:57pm Wed 26 Mar 14

cgb says...

Almeda11
You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer?
An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.
Almeda11 You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer? An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid. cgb
  • Score: -5

8:58pm Wed 26 Mar 14

TheaWells says...

Paphos97 wrote:
A sad story... Can the other members of the family who are under the age of 35, please contact the charity organisation CRY (Cardiac Risk in the Young), they may offer to screen for any congenital problems that unfortunately are only found after tragic events like this. God Bless Jodie & RIP
www.c-r-y.org.uk
^ this
[quote][p][bold]Paphos97[/bold] wrote: A sad story... Can the other members of the family who are under the age of 35, please contact the charity organisation CRY (Cardiac Risk in the Young), they may offer to screen for any congenital problems that unfortunately are only found after tragic events like this. God Bless Jodie & RIP www.c-r-y.org.uk[/p][/quote]^ this TheaWells
  • Score: 2

9:30pm Wed 26 Mar 14

Paphos97 says...

cgb wrote:
Almeda11
You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer?
An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.
Quite right, not abnormalities are found on ECG's but certainly can be of help, especially if there's a family history and positive answers to certain questions... ECG's are currently the best way to identify potential problems an helps prevent further undiagnosed conditions.
The footballer you referred to in fact had previous issues showing on his ECG and the ECG 2 weeks prior to his incident had a flipped T, which sometimes is the only abnormality found, as he had no other priority symptoms the all clear was given. Many athletes have had their careers cut short through the advice given after a screening ECG, so they do have a major part to play.
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: Almeda11 You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer? An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.[/p][/quote]Quite right, not abnormalities are found on ECG's but certainly can be of help, especially if there's a family history and positive answers to certain questions... ECG's are currently the best way to identify potential problems an helps prevent further undiagnosed conditions. The footballer you referred to in fact had previous issues showing on his ECG and the ECG 2 weeks prior to his incident had a flipped T, which sometimes is the only abnormality found, as he had no other priority symptoms the all clear was given. Many athletes have had their careers cut short through the advice given after a screening ECG, so they do have a major part to play. Paphos97
  • Score: 2

5:20am Thu 27 Mar 14

LesleyK9 says...

Dan-Hockley wrote:
This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child.

However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know.

GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions.

I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do.

I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court.

I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen.

I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive.
I am an Australian mother who has lost a 22 year old son to SADS. Awareness on cardiac risk in the young is lacking for everyone who is responsible with the welfare of our children and youth. Cardiac Specialists, GP's, parents, teachers and sports and recreational coaches and instructors are all of the mindset 'young, fit, healthy, there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with their hearts'. I narrowed it down here in Australia to a lack of information coming through from the medical research sector. I put in a complaint to the National Health and Medical Research Council who are supposedly committed to supporting the effective and rapid translation of research findings into health care policy and practice. This has not been happening here in Australia regarding young sudden cardiac arrest/death and seems it isn't happening over there. They didn't give me a reasonable response to my complaint so now it's before the Federal Ombudsman.
Lesley Keegan
[quote][p][bold]Dan-Hockley[/bold] wrote: This is an absolute tragedy and it must be genuinely heartbreaking to lose your child. However, there is no justification in blaming the doctors. They undergo far more training than you and I will ever do and the collective knowledge and wisdom of 4 GPs is far greater than any of us will know. GPs do work hard, have got stupid government targets (thanks to that **** Tony Blair) and the whole medical infrastructure is being held together with hard work and dedication of staff in spite of numerous civil servants political ambitions. I'm sure that these GPs have saved far more lives than everyone commenting/reading this article will ever do. I cannot begin to imagine this family's grief but sensationalist reporting by journalists isn't going to help and I am truly disturbed by the fact that the family have taken this to court. I sincerely wish that I never have to experience the pain and grief that this family do but the law of averages dictate that sometimes, tragedies do happen. I cannot believe for one moment that the medical professionals involved in this case have not spent countless hours and sleepless nights questioning themselves and their judgements, but you can't lay blame at people who day in day out do their very best to keep our population alive.[/p][/quote]I am an Australian mother who has lost a 22 year old son to SADS. Awareness on cardiac risk in the young is lacking for everyone who is responsible with the welfare of our children and youth. Cardiac Specialists, GP's, parents, teachers and sports and recreational coaches and instructors are all of the mindset 'young, fit, healthy, there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with their hearts'. I narrowed it down here in Australia to a lack of information coming through from the medical research sector. I put in a complaint to the National Health and Medical Research Council who are supposedly committed to supporting the effective and rapid translation of research findings into health care policy and practice. This has not been happening here in Australia regarding young sudden cardiac arrest/death and seems it isn't happening over there. They didn't give me a reasonable response to my complaint so now it's before the Federal Ombudsman. Lesley Keegan LesleyK9
  • Score: 3

10:45am Thu 27 Mar 14

Almeda11 says...

cgb wrote:
Almeda11 You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer? An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.
My God, you are unbelievable !!! Are you obsessed with ECG`s, because this is what you are repeating, time and time again.

l said OTHER investigations were ALSO needed, but you obviously chose to ignore that, how very convenient !!

AGAIN, and especially for the more dense among us l will quote what has already been said:


QUOTE:


lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated.

You may be at risk, if you have:

A family history of unexplained death
Breathlessness on effort.
Chest pain on effort.
Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause
Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting.
Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*).
If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP).
Investigations for possible heart problems include:

Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history.
ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive.
Other more specialised tests may be neededsuch as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI)

Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated.
UNQUOTE.


As you CAN SEE quite a few smptoms WERE present in this case, and ECG IS MENTIONED, and from a MEDICAL source.

As for not being educated enough, l am a darn sight more educated than you`ll ever be and have, as again previously stated some medical knowledge, and am from a medical family. Facts which you choose to either disbelieve or ignore.

As for being offended, well lol, l could NEVER be offended by someone of your mentality, l would worry abvout myself if l fell for all the absolute rubbish that you spout and the fact that you time and time again carry on choosing to disregard medical evidence from medical websites, when you yourself are completely ignorant.
And, very interesting, considering you have so many down arrows, a sign that the vast majority of people on here are NOT in agreement with you, that it is ONLY MY NAME that you are CHOOSING to reply to !! VERY strange, or maybe you have an obsession or fettish about MY NAME?

Be interesting to hear WHY you don`t reply to the other, many people who disagree with you. l`ll be waiting with interest for your answer on that!!
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: Almeda11 You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer? An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.[/p][/quote]My God, you are unbelievable !!! Are you obsessed with ECG`s, because this is what you are repeating, time and time again. l said OTHER investigations were ALSO needed, but you obviously chose to ignore that, how very convenient !! AGAIN, and especially for the more dense among us l will quote what has already been said: QUOTE: lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated. You may be at risk, if you have: A family history of unexplained death Breathlessness on effort. Chest pain on effort. Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting. Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*). If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP). Investigations for possible heart problems include: Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history. ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive. Other more specialised tests may be neededsuch as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI) Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated. UNQUOTE. As you CAN SEE quite a few smptoms WERE present in this case, and ECG IS MENTIONED, and from a MEDICAL source. As for not being educated enough, l am a darn sight more educated than you`ll ever be and have, as again previously stated some medical knowledge, and am from a medical family. Facts which you choose to either disbelieve or ignore. As for being offended, well lol, l could NEVER be offended by someone of your mentality, l would worry abvout myself if l fell for all the absolute rubbish that you spout and the fact that you time and time again carry on choosing to disregard medical evidence from medical websites, when you yourself are completely ignorant. And, very interesting, considering you have so many down arrows, a sign that the vast majority of people on here are NOT in agreement with you, that it is ONLY MY NAME that you are CHOOSING to reply to !! VERY strange, or maybe you have an obsession or fettish about MY NAME? Be interesting to hear WHY you don`t reply to the other, many people who disagree with you. l`ll be waiting with interest for your answer on that!! Almeda11
  • Score: 3

12:09pm Thu 27 Mar 14

timedontstandstill says...

cgb wrote:
Almeda11
You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer?
An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.
l think the only stupid one on here is you, and it is obvious from your posts that you are the one passing judgement on things you know nothing about, so l suggest you educate yourself.
You consistenly ignore other markers of what would have been possible to do for this unfortunate young woman, and are almost alone in your views.
l am a nurse and l can assure you that a person who suffers with rapid heartbeat, ( tachycardia) which is an arrhythmia, and shortness of breath, which is often a sign of left sided heart failure, will, not won`t, benefit from an ECG as this is a very useful first step in any investigation, so almeda is certainly right in that respect. .

The fact that these doctors were exonerated in this case proves nothing. lf a different doctor had carried out this investigation it is quite possible that he or she would have come to a different conclusion.

And, the fact that Mr Heck said that it was not certain that further investigation would have found an underlying problem, just proves l think that there WAS uncertainty, and any uncertainties should ALWAYS be investigated further.
[quote][p][bold]cgb[/bold] wrote: Almeda11 You honestly believe an ECG diagnoses the majority of people with an inherited cardiac condition at risk of sudden adult death? Wrong wrong wrong. I know exactly what an ECG is, how you do one and even what they can and can't show. You lack the knowledge to know this and just assume any investigation gives a diagnostic answer? An example:- as a professional athlete Fabrice Muamba MUST and did have an ECG and echocardiogram prior to playing for a premiership team. Guess what- they were both normal and yet he nearly died!! You have a too simplistic view of medical diagnoses and diagnostic yield. Go look up sensitivity, specificity, positive predictive and negative predictive value of diagnostic tests ( or go and ask your relatives). Educate yourself because at the moment you are shouting a load of nonsense and for people who do know what they are talking about you do sound thick- sorry if you are offended but it's true. Whatever the subject people who are passing judgement on stuff they don't know about do end up looking stupid.[/p][/quote]l think the only stupid one on here is you, and it is obvious from your posts that you are the one passing judgement on things you know nothing about, so l suggest you educate yourself. You consistenly ignore other markers of what would have been possible to do for this unfortunate young woman, and are almost alone in your views. l am a nurse and l can assure you that a person who suffers with rapid heartbeat, ( tachycardia) which is an arrhythmia, and shortness of breath, which is often a sign of left sided heart failure, will, not won`t, benefit from an ECG as this is a very useful first step in any investigation, so almeda is certainly right in that respect. . The fact that these doctors were exonerated in this case proves nothing. lf a different doctor had carried out this investigation it is quite possible that he or she would have come to a different conclusion. And, the fact that Mr Heck said that it was not certain that further investigation would have found an underlying problem, just proves l think that there WAS uncertainty, and any uncertainties should ALWAYS be investigated further. timedontstandstill
  • Score: 3

12:39am Wed 2 Apr 14

Sonographer says...

The family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss.

Some of the comments here are vile. "Doctors to rot in hell" and "disregard for human life". These comments are a reflection of people's ignorance NOT of the doctors. You know NOTHING of the true circumstances so keep quiet. Do you honestly think those doctors drive to work in the morning with anything other than a desire to help and do no harm?

The facts seem to be as follows:

Apart from a small lower limb DVT and some pulmonary microemboli this young girl's post mortem examination was completely unremarkable. The tiny isolated lower limb DVT and pulmonary microemboli that were found would not have caused her cardiac arrest. Most patients that die from massive PE have either a large saddle emboli in the pulmonary trunk or very widespread disseminated pulmonary emboli. This was not the case ostensibly. Blood and fluid on her lungs is almost certainly attributed to CPR.

Her heart on post mortem was structurally normal and therefore HAD an echocardiogram been undertaken prior to her untimely death it would have been NORMAL. Yes she had some small amount of intracardiac thrombus but had she been anticoagulated for this OR her tiny DVT sooner it STILL would not have prevented an ensuing electrical disturbance from taking her life (which seems to be the case).

Most patients who die from sudden cardiac death syndromes have normal resting ECGS, and this case was no exception. There was no QT prolongation, no delta waves and a normal PR interval. She was a little tachycardic and there are a plethora of causes (one of which is a PE but earlier anticoagulation would NOT have prevented the likely ensuing electrical disturbance that ended this poor young girls life).

Trying to apportion blame in this case will achieve nothing other than prolong the family's suffering. There are no more answers to be had. Its simply presumptuous to say the doctors are arrogant. We must come to terms with what amounts to a natural death. Some deaths are preventable and some are sudden and catastrophic and largely unpreventable. From what I can see the doctors acted entirely appropriately and earlier referral and intervention would not have altered the outcome (because nothing directly relating to the actual cause of death would have ever been found). The media, as always, are to blame for perpetuating this unjustified doctor hating tirade and the non medical public should keep quiet please until they have the facts.

The coroner's verdict is utterly sound.

Once again the family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss.
The family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss. Some of the comments here are vile. "Doctors to rot in hell" and "disregard for human life". These comments are a reflection of people's ignorance NOT of the doctors. You know NOTHING of the true circumstances so keep quiet. Do you honestly think those doctors drive to work in the morning with anything other than a desire to help and do no harm? The facts seem to be as follows: Apart from a small lower limb DVT and some pulmonary microemboli this young girl's post mortem examination was completely unremarkable. The tiny isolated lower limb DVT and pulmonary microemboli that were found would not have caused her cardiac arrest. Most patients that die from massive PE have either a large saddle emboli in the pulmonary trunk or very widespread disseminated pulmonary emboli. This was not the case ostensibly. Blood and fluid on her lungs is almost certainly attributed to CPR. Her heart on post mortem was structurally normal and therefore HAD an echocardiogram been undertaken prior to her untimely death it would have been NORMAL. Yes she had some small amount of intracardiac thrombus but had she been anticoagulated for this OR her tiny DVT sooner it STILL would not have prevented an ensuing electrical disturbance from taking her life (which seems to be the case). Most patients who die from sudden cardiac death syndromes have normal resting ECGS, and this case was no exception. There was no QT prolongation, no delta waves and a normal PR interval. She was a little tachycardic and there are a plethora of causes (one of which is a PE but earlier anticoagulation would NOT have prevented the likely ensuing electrical disturbance that ended this poor young girls life). Trying to apportion blame in this case will achieve nothing other than prolong the family's suffering. There are no more answers to be had. Its simply presumptuous to say the doctors are arrogant. We must come to terms with what amounts to a natural death. Some deaths are preventable and some are sudden and catastrophic and largely unpreventable. From what I can see the doctors acted entirely appropriately and earlier referral and intervention would not have altered the outcome (because nothing directly relating to the actual cause of death would have ever been found). The media, as always, are to blame for perpetuating this unjustified doctor hating tirade and the non medical public should keep quiet please until they have the facts. The coroner's verdict is utterly sound. Once again the family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss. Sonographer
  • Score: -5

11:58am Fri 4 Apr 14

Almeda11 says...

Sonographer wrote:
The family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss. Some of the comments here are vile. "Doctors to rot in hell" and "disregard for human life". These comments are a reflection of people's ignorance NOT of the doctors. You know NOTHING of the true circumstances so keep quiet. Do you honestly think those doctors drive to work in the morning with anything other than a desire to help and do no harm? The facts seem to be as follows: Apart from a small lower limb DVT and some pulmonary microemboli this young girl's post mortem examination was completely unremarkable. The tiny isolated lower limb DVT and pulmonary microemboli that were found would not have caused her cardiac arrest. Most patients that die from massive PE have either a large saddle emboli in the pulmonary trunk or very widespread disseminated pulmonary emboli. This was not the case ostensibly. Blood and fluid on her lungs is almost certainly attributed to CPR. Her heart on post mortem was structurally normal and therefore HAD an echocardiogram been undertaken prior to her untimely death it would have been NORMAL. Yes she had some small amount of intracardiac thrombus but had she been anticoagulated for this OR her tiny DVT sooner it STILL would not have prevented an ensuing electrical disturbance from taking her life (which seems to be the case). Most patients who die from sudden cardiac death syndromes have normal resting ECGS, and this case was no exception. There was no QT prolongation, no delta waves and a normal PR interval. She was a little tachycardic and there are a plethora of causes (one of which is a PE but earlier anticoagulation would NOT have prevented the likely ensuing electrical disturbance that ended this poor young girls life). Trying to apportion blame in this case will achieve nothing other than prolong the family's suffering. There are no more answers to be had. Its simply presumptuous to say the doctors are arrogant. We must come to terms with what amounts to a natural death. Some deaths are preventable and some are sudden and catastrophic and largely unpreventable. From what I can see the doctors acted entirely appropriately and earlier referral and intervention would not have altered the outcome (because nothing directly relating to the actual cause of death would have ever been found). The media, as always, are to blame for perpetuating this unjustified doctor hating tirade and the non medical public should keep quiet please until they have the facts. The coroner's verdict is utterly sound. Once again the family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss.
Are you a doctor? Because if not l think YOU are the one who should keep quiet instead of telling others to do so !!!

Did you even bother to read all the other comments, thoroughly? Because if you did you will see that your views together with one or two other people are in a minority, a victory for common sense as far as l am concerned.

And you even have the gall to go against a nurse, who says quite rightly in my opinion;

QUOTE:

"You consistenly ignore other markers of what would have been possible to do for this unfortunate young woman, and are almost alone in your views.
l am a nurse and l can assure you that a person who suffers with rapid heartbeat, ( tachycardia) which is an arrhythmia, and shortness of breath, which is often a sign of left sided heart failure, will, not won`t, benefit from an ECG as this is a very useful first step in any investigation, so almeda is certainly right in that respect. .

The fact that these doctors were exonerated in this case proves nothing. lf a different doctor had carried out this investigation it is quite possible that he or she would have come to a different conclusion.

And, the fact that Mr Heck said that it was not certain that further investigation would have found an underlying problem, just proves l think that there WAS uncertainty, and any uncertainties should ALWAYS be investigated further" UNQUOTE.

You sound not only arrogant yourself but ignorant too. lf you were not you would know that an ECG test is done on people with arrhythmia, which is often present in sudden cardiac death.

lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated.

You may be at risk, if you have:

A family history of unexplained death
Breathlessness on effort.
Chest pain on effort.
Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause
Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting.
Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*).
If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP).
Investigations for possible heart problems include:

Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history.
ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive.
Other more specialised tests may be needed such as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI)
As you CAN SEE quite a few symptoms WERE present in this case, and ECG IS MENTIONED, and from a MEDICAL source.


Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated.

What Is Sudden Cardiac Arrest?
sudden cardiac arrest is due to an "electrical" problem in the heart. It happens when electrical signals that control the heart's pumping ability essentially short-circuit. Suddenly, the heart may beat dangerously fast, causing the heart's ventricles -- its main pumping chambers -- to quiver or flutter.

Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*).
If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP).
Investigations for possible heart problems include:

Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history.
ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive.
Other more specialised tests may be needed such as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI)
[quote][p][bold]Sonographer[/bold] wrote: The family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss. Some of the comments here are vile. "Doctors to rot in hell" and "disregard for human life". These comments are a reflection of people's ignorance NOT of the doctors. You know NOTHING of the true circumstances so keep quiet. Do you honestly think those doctors drive to work in the morning with anything other than a desire to help and do no harm? The facts seem to be as follows: Apart from a small lower limb DVT and some pulmonary microemboli this young girl's post mortem examination was completely unremarkable. The tiny isolated lower limb DVT and pulmonary microemboli that were found would not have caused her cardiac arrest. Most patients that die from massive PE have either a large saddle emboli in the pulmonary trunk or very widespread disseminated pulmonary emboli. This was not the case ostensibly. Blood and fluid on her lungs is almost certainly attributed to CPR. Her heart on post mortem was structurally normal and therefore HAD an echocardiogram been undertaken prior to her untimely death it would have been NORMAL. Yes she had some small amount of intracardiac thrombus but had she been anticoagulated for this OR her tiny DVT sooner it STILL would not have prevented an ensuing electrical disturbance from taking her life (which seems to be the case). Most patients who die from sudden cardiac death syndromes have normal resting ECGS, and this case was no exception. There was no QT prolongation, no delta waves and a normal PR interval. She was a little tachycardic and there are a plethora of causes (one of which is a PE but earlier anticoagulation would NOT have prevented the likely ensuing electrical disturbance that ended this poor young girls life). Trying to apportion blame in this case will achieve nothing other than prolong the family's suffering. There are no more answers to be had. Its simply presumptuous to say the doctors are arrogant. We must come to terms with what amounts to a natural death. Some deaths are preventable and some are sudden and catastrophic and largely unpreventable. From what I can see the doctors acted entirely appropriately and earlier referral and intervention would not have altered the outcome (because nothing directly relating to the actual cause of death would have ever been found). The media, as always, are to blame for perpetuating this unjustified doctor hating tirade and the non medical public should keep quiet please until they have the facts. The coroner's verdict is utterly sound. Once again the family have my deepest sympathies for this tragic loss.[/p][/quote]Are you a doctor? Because if not l think YOU are the one who should keep quiet instead of telling others to do so !!! Did you even bother to read all the other comments, thoroughly? Because if you did you will see that your views together with one or two other people are in a minority, a victory for common sense as far as l am concerned. And you even have the gall to go against a nurse, who says quite rightly in my opinion; QUOTE: "You consistenly ignore other markers of what would have been possible to do for this unfortunate young woman, and are almost alone in your views. l am a nurse and l can assure you that a person who suffers with rapid heartbeat, ( tachycardia) which is an arrhythmia, and shortness of breath, which is often a sign of left sided heart failure, will, not won`t, benefit from an ECG as this is a very useful first step in any investigation, so almeda is certainly right in that respect. . The fact that these doctors were exonerated in this case proves nothing. lf a different doctor had carried out this investigation it is quite possible that he or she would have come to a different conclusion. And, the fact that Mr Heck said that it was not certain that further investigation would have found an underlying problem, just proves l think that there WAS uncertainty, and any uncertainties should ALWAYS be investigated further" UNQUOTE. You sound not only arrogant yourself but ignorant too. lf you were not you would know that an ECG test is done on people with arrhythmia, which is often present in sudden cardiac death. lf you bothered to take the time to look you will see that there is a wealth of information online which all clearly state that this sudden cardiac death is avoidable, and it is only in britain that this conditional is called a "natural" death, when it is something that can be treated. You may be at risk, if you have: A family history of unexplained death Breathlessness on effort. Chest pain on effort. Dizziness, fainting and blackouts of unknown cause Fast heart rate that comes and goes, even when you are resting. Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*). If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP). Investigations for possible heart problems include: Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history. ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive. Other more specialised tests may be needed such as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI) As you CAN SEE quite a few symptoms WERE present in this case, and ECG IS MENTIONED, and from a MEDICAL source. Most of the conditions which cause sudden cardiac death can be treated. What Is Sudden Cardiac Arrest? sudden cardiac arrest is due to an "electrical" problem in the heart. It happens when electrical signals that control the heart's pumping ability essentially short-circuit. Suddenly, the heart may beat dangerously fast, causing the heart's ventricles -- its main pumping chambers -- to quiver or flutter. Palpitations* due to an irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia*). If you have any of these symptoms, you should speak to your doctor (GP). Investigations for possible heart problems include: Medical examination including questions about your family’s medical history. ECG* (electrocardiogram) and possibly an Echo* (echocardiogram) if indicated. These tests are painless and non-invasive. Other more specialised tests may be needed such as a magnetic resonance intensifier (MRI) Almeda11
  • Score: 1

11:12pm Fri 11 Apr 14

Sonographer says...

Yes I am a consultant in Emergency Medicine with a special interest in trauma and vascular sonography.
Yes I am a consultant in Emergency Medicine with a special interest in trauma and vascular sonography. Sonographer
  • Score: 0

7:15pm Tue 15 Apr 14

Almeda11 says...

Sonographer wrote:
Yes I am a consultant in Emergency Medicine with a special interest in trauma and vascular sonography.
Really, well anyone can say anthing online can`t they, doesn`t mean it`s true though. Name?

The NHS should be ashamed of the far too common stories we keep hearing, only a couple of weeks ago, in the Echo, ( April 4th `14) there was a story of a GP who, again, didn`t take seriously the mother`s concerns about her child.who was shortly afterwards found to be suffering from cancer.
This GP, from the Queensway surgery, dismissed it as " toddler bruising" simply because that is what he CHOSE to believe.

The mother was so distraught she took her child to the pharmacist to ask for advice. The advice was that because bruises were forming just by touching the skin, that she should take her daughter to have blood tests done.
She then went back to the surgery, and saw another doctor, who authorised the tests, and other tests,then referred her to Addenbrooks hospital.
However, it was two weeks since she had seen the first doctor, and it was because of that delay, in which her condition worsened, that she died.

Again, an arrogant and disbelieving doctor who simply couldn`t be bothered to do the tests, too LAZY, wheras the 2nd doctor, at that surgery was not.

And only TODAY, the 15th April`14, headlines in the ECHO screaming out
" AMBULANCE FAILED DYING MOTHER" with the horror story that followed that UNTRAINED, STUDENT paramedics were ALLOWED to treat a mother who was bleeding to death, and subsequently died.
These idots didn`t even begin to MOVE the ambulance for FORTY MINUTES. THEN, they conveniently " forgot" to put the siren on, or flash the blue light.

TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE, THE LEVEL OF INCOMPETANCE is astounding, and the so called " training" obviously ther was none and lack of supersion was equally so. Maybe you should read the Echo more, as well as the national press.

l visit Germany as often as l can and this would never be allowed to happen there, they would be horrified and dumbstruck at such a lax, English? attitude. and the fact that it WAS ALLOWED for untrained people to be left in sole charge, they would not be able to comprehend such a mindset.

lf that had ever happened to a member of MY family, l would have sued the socks off them, as it happens l believe happenings like these should be made a criminal offence, that might concentrate their minds more on the job they SHOULD be doing.
Anyone who thinks this is all ok, or " that these things happen" or worse, DEFENDS this incompetent , arrogant and apathetic attitude, disgusts me, and doctors like this should be prosecuted, never, ever, allowed to practice again
[quote][p][bold]Sonographer[/bold] wrote: Yes I am a consultant in Emergency Medicine with a special interest in trauma and vascular sonography.[/p][/quote]Really, well anyone can say anthing online can`t they, doesn`t mean it`s true though. Name? The NHS should be ashamed of the far too common stories we keep hearing, only a couple of weeks ago, in the Echo, ( April 4th `14) there was a story of a GP who, again, didn`t take seriously the mother`s concerns about her child.who was shortly afterwards found to be suffering from cancer. This GP, from the Queensway surgery, dismissed it as " toddler bruising" simply because that is what he CHOSE to believe. The mother was so distraught she took her child to the pharmacist to ask for advice. The advice was that because bruises were forming just by touching the skin, that she should take her daughter to have blood tests done. She then went back to the surgery, and saw another doctor, who authorised the tests, and other tests,then referred her to Addenbrooks hospital. However, it was two weeks since she had seen the first doctor, and it was because of that delay, in which her condition worsened, that she died. Again, an arrogant and disbelieving doctor who simply couldn`t be bothered to do the tests, too LAZY, wheras the 2nd doctor, at that surgery was not. And only TODAY, the 15th April`14, headlines in the ECHO screaming out " AMBULANCE FAILED DYING MOTHER" with the horror story that followed that UNTRAINED, STUDENT paramedics were ALLOWED to treat a mother who was bleeding to death, and subsequently died. These idots didn`t even begin to MOVE the ambulance for FORTY MINUTES. THEN, they conveniently " forgot" to put the siren on, or flash the blue light. TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE, THE LEVEL OF INCOMPETANCE is astounding, and the so called " training" obviously ther was none and lack of supersion was equally so. Maybe you should read the Echo more, as well as the national press. l visit Germany as often as l can and this would never be allowed to happen there, they would be horrified and dumbstruck at such a lax, English? attitude. and the fact that it WAS ALLOWED for untrained people to be left in sole charge, they would not be able to comprehend such a mindset. lf that had ever happened to a member of MY family, l would have sued the socks off them, as it happens l believe happenings like these should be made a criminal offence, that might concentrate their minds more on the job they SHOULD be doing. Anyone who thinks this is all ok, or " that these things happen" or worse, DEFENDS this incompetent , arrogant and apathetic attitude, disgusts me, and doctors like this should be prosecuted, never, ever, allowed to practice again Almeda11
  • Score: 0

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