Basildon badly hit by the bedroom tax

Southend Standard: Protest – Filomena Cassano, Peter Covey, Marianne Murray and Dave Murray outside the Basildon Centre Protest – Filomena Cassano, Peter Covey, Marianne Murray and Dave Murray outside the Basildon Centre

BASILDON is one of the towns worst-hit by the bedroom tax in the east of England, it has been revealed.

Since April 2013, Basildon Council has handed out 620 notices to tenants seeking repossession due to rent arrears.

It admits 82 of those cases are down to the bedroom tax.

The tenants will have to fight their cases in court.

The Tory administration has refused to guarantee not to evict people, despite the pleas of the opposition Labour party.

Research from campaign group the Housing Federation shows 1,630 households in Basildon have been affected since the tax began, in April 2013 – the second highest figure in the whole Eastern region. It shows tenants are £830 per year worse off on average.

The Government brought in the controversial tax as part of a package of welfare reforms.

Benefits are cut to tenants who are deemed to have a spare bedroom in their council or housing association home.

Dave Murray, the chairman and founder of the Basildon Residents Against Bedroom Tax group, said: “I think it is incredibly callous and a deliberate policy to punish the poor for the failings of the rich.

“Most households who are affected are those who are disabled and they are paying for the failures of speculators and bankers.

“We will continue to fight this process of making it a crime to be poor.”

Last year, up to December, 10,530 residents were given a court summons because of council tax arrears – a rise of 2,412 compared to 2012.

Of the 1,630 households affected by the bedroom tax in Basildon, just 124 have been able to move to smaller accommodation, due to a shortage of housing.

The opposition Labour party has called for a guarantee no residents will be evicted due to rent arrears, but the Tory administration has refused to give it.

Labour claims the tax hurts people who need to have a second room for reasons such as medical equipment, and people who are disabled and need a carer.

Labour group deputy leader Byron Taylor said: “People are being pushed out simply because they are either poor or disabled.

“We are the only party that will abolish the bedroom tax.”

The Tories have hit back at the claims and accused the Labour group of making an argument based on emotion rather than looking at facts.

Council deputy leader Phil Turner said: “There are no facts and figures here. It is is all to play on the emotions instead, based on sentimentality.”

Comments (37)

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5:38pm Wed 8 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: 5

5:51pm Wed 8 Jan 14

Nebs says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council. Nebs
  • Score: 25

6:47pm Wed 8 Jan 14

profondo asbo says...

benefits strasse season 2
benefits strasse season 2 profondo asbo
  • Score: 12

6:52pm Wed 8 Jan 14

jolllyboy says...

Lets be honest this is a dreadful 'tax' there are not enough smaller properties for people to move into. First the right to buy should stop. if you can afford to buy a social housing house then you can afford to put money into buying from a Housing association with their deals. The latest idea from tories in help to buy will see in a few years time a lot in debt when the interest starts to kick in.
Lets be honest this is a dreadful 'tax' there are not enough smaller properties for people to move into. First the right to buy should stop. if you can afford to buy a social housing house then you can afford to put money into buying from a Housing association with their deals. The latest idea from tories in help to buy will see in a few years time a lot in debt when the interest starts to kick in. jolllyboy
  • Score: 18

10:11pm Wed 8 Jan 14

Nowthatsworthknowing says...

Bedsits seem the only affordable alternative, or shall we say oh ok live there scot free...
Bedsits seem the only affordable alternative, or shall we say oh ok live there scot free... Nowthatsworthknowing
  • Score: 7

1:24am Thu 9 Jan 14

Kim Gandy says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
And Labour will do any better? They were the architect of the benefits culture and overcrowded Britain.

One day you will discover your brain, laying long forgotten down some waste pipe somewhere.

As for people occupying properties that are too big for them, we all know at least one, don't we Chucky of Pitsea. Gobbing off from behind the safety of your keyboard, your own credentials are murky to say the least, eh UKIP supporter turned Labour leaflet distributor.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]And Labour will do any better? They were the architect of the benefits culture and overcrowded Britain. One day you will discover your brain, laying long forgotten down some waste pipe somewhere. As for people occupying properties that are too big for them, we all know at least one, don't we Chucky of Pitsea. Gobbing off from behind the safety of your keyboard, your own credentials are murky to say the least, eh UKIP supporter turned Labour leaflet distributor. Kim Gandy
  • Score: 0

1:25am Thu 9 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they? LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -11

1:31am Thu 9 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

Kim Gandy wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
And Labour will do any better? They were the architect of the benefits culture and overcrowded Britain.

One day you will discover your brain, laying long forgotten down some waste pipe somewhere.

As for people occupying properties that are too big for them, we all know at least one, don't we Chucky of Pitsea. Gobbing off from behind the safety of your keyboard, your own credentials are murky to say the least, eh UKIP supporter turned Labour leaflet distributor.
Kim you really outdo your bs every time you post...the thread is not about your vendetta against people who seemingly have more integrity than you but about vulnerable people in a Joseph Heller situation ( I say that just to get you to research and get a little bit of variety in your life)
[quote][p][bold]Kim Gandy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]And Labour will do any better? They were the architect of the benefits culture and overcrowded Britain. One day you will discover your brain, laying long forgotten down some waste pipe somewhere. As for people occupying properties that are too big for them, we all know at least one, don't we Chucky of Pitsea. Gobbing off from behind the safety of your keyboard, your own credentials are murky to say the least, eh UKIP supporter turned Labour leaflet distributor.[/p][/quote]Kim you really outdo your bs every time you post...the thread is not about your vendetta against people who seemingly have more integrity than you but about vulnerable people in a Joseph Heller situation ( I say that just to get you to research and get a little bit of variety in your life) LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -7

6:29am Thu 9 Jan 14

Nowthatsworthknowing says...

jolllyboy wrote:
Lets be honest this is a dreadful 'tax' there are not enough smaller properties for people to move into. First the right to buy should stop. if you can afford to buy a social housing house then you can afford to put money into buying from a Housing association with their deals. The latest idea from tories in help to buy will see in a few years time a lot in debt when the interest starts to kick in.
Tufftitties they gladly accepted these over sized homes, now let them pay for them, can't pay ? then evict, there's a lot of people just aching for larger accomodation
[quote][p][bold]jolllyboy[/bold] wrote: Lets be honest this is a dreadful 'tax' there are not enough smaller properties for people to move into. First the right to buy should stop. if you can afford to buy a social housing house then you can afford to put money into buying from a Housing association with their deals. The latest idea from tories in help to buy will see in a few years time a lot in debt when the interest starts to kick in.[/p][/quote]Tufftitties they gladly accepted these over sized homes, now let them pay for them, can't pay ? then evict, there's a lot of people just aching for larger accomodation Nowthatsworthknowing
  • Score: 5

5:31pm Thu 9 Jan 14

Nebs says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible. Nebs
  • Score: 3

6:02pm Thu 9 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -4

1:25am Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

http://www.theguardi
an.com/society/2014/
jan/09/bedroom-tax-l
oophole-exempt-liabl
e-housing-benefit

what a c**k-up...this might be helpful to some victims of the BRT.
http://www.theguardi an.com/society/2014/ jan/09/bedroom-tax-l oophole-exempt-liabl e-housing-benefit what a c**k-up...this might be helpful to some victims of the BRT. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -2

10:05am Fri 10 Jan 14

Stamper2 says...

I suppose these tenants also do not pay any council tax. Basildon has a poor collection rate on the council tax, and it is obviously unfair that a minority of the local population feel it is their right not to have to pay their tax or for living in their property.

The rest of us work **** hard for our money and assets. I for one am fed up with these scroungers. If I could, I would ship them all out to Bulgaria or Romania where I understand living costs are a lot cheaper, and where there is now a lot of empty property.
I suppose these tenants also do not pay any council tax. Basildon has a poor collection rate on the council tax, and it is obviously unfair that a minority of the local population feel it is their right not to have to pay their tax or for living in their property. The rest of us work **** hard for our money and assets. I for one am fed up with these scroungers. If I could, I would ship them all out to Bulgaria or Romania where I understand living costs are a lot cheaper, and where there is now a lot of empty property. Stamper2
  • Score: 5

10:15am Fri 10 Jan 14

Stamper2 says...

'Most of these are disabled'!!!!

Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment????

The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is.

As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up.

About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.
'Most of these are disabled'!!!! Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment???? The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is. As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up. About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications. Stamper2
  • Score: 10

10:37am Fri 10 Jan 14

Leighdweller says...

Wonder how many of these people have a TV licence for a black and white telly.
Wonder how many of these people have a TV licence for a black and white telly. Leighdweller
  • Score: 5

12:45pm Fri 10 Jan 14

steady_bloke says...

Let's face it, for far too long now we have had crap after crap. Party politics rules westminster. Yet we argue amongst ourselves about who can do this or that better for us when really the powers that be are only in it for themselves and couldn't really give t*** about us mere peasants.
Let's face it, for far too long now we have had crap after crap. Party politics rules westminster. Yet we argue amongst ourselves about who can do this or that better for us when really the powers that be are only in it for themselves and couldn't really give t*** about us mere peasants. steady_bloke
  • Score: 7

1:56pm Fri 10 Jan 14

Stamper2 says...

There are 15 black and white TV licenses in Basildon.
There are 15 black and white TV licenses in Basildon. Stamper2
  • Score: 0

2:35pm Fri 10 Jan 14

woolstone says...

The worst tax since the window tax. Shows how much progress this country has made. Not enough one bedroom properties around for this tax to be fair. Wonder if they will dare bring in a mansion tax or are they too scared to upset their rich friends.
The worst tax since the window tax. Shows how much progress this country has made. Not enough one bedroom properties around for this tax to be fair. Wonder if they will dare bring in a mansion tax or are they too scared to upset their rich friends. woolstone
  • Score: -1

3:39pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastIaugh,,. says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you.

I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared?

Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises.

You really are a Banker.

Not sure I spelled that right.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you. I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared? Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises. You really are a Banker. Not sure I spelled that right. LastIaugh,,.
  • Score: 0

4:43pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

LastIaugh,,. wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you.

I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared?

Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises.

You really are a Banker.

Not sure I spelled that right.
You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments...

The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself...
[quote][p][bold]LastIaugh,,.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you. I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared? Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises. You really are a Banker. Not sure I spelled that right.[/p][/quote]You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments... The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself... LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -3

4:54pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

Stamper2 wrote:
'Most of these are disabled'!!!!

Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment????

The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is.

As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up.

About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.
No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..
[quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: 'Most of these are disabled'!!!! Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment???? The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is. As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up. About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.[/p][/quote]No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear.. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: 1

4:55pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

LastIaugh,,. wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you.

I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared?

Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises.

You really are a Banker.

Not sure I spelled that right.
You feel the tories had no hand in regards to immigrants and asylum seekers entering the country?
[quote][p][bold]LastIaugh,,.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you. I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared? Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises. You really are a Banker. Not sure I spelled that right.[/p][/quote]You feel the tories had no hand in regards to immigrants and asylum seekers entering the country? LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -1

5:28pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh2 says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
LastIaugh,,. wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you.

I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared?

Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises.

You really are a Banker.

Not sure I spelled that right.
You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments...

The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself...
Try buttoning it, we all know your stand on those from overseas
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastIaugh,,.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you. I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared? Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises. You really are a Banker. Not sure I spelled that right.[/p][/quote]You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments... The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself...[/p][/quote]Try buttoning it, we all know your stand on those from overseas LastLaugh2
  • Score: 3

5:30pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh2 says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Stamper2 wrote:
'Most of these are disabled'!!!!

Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment????

The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is.

As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up.

About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.
No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..
Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: 'Most of these are disabled'!!!! Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment???? The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is. As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up. About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.[/p][/quote]No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..[/p][/quote]Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo. LastLaugh2
  • Score: 0

5:52pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

LastLaugh2 wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
LastIaugh,,. wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you.

I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared?

Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises.

You really are a Banker.

Not sure I spelled that right.
You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments...

The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself...
Try buttoning it, we all know your stand on those from overseas
You know nothing about how I stand, other than what you surmise, in regard's to 'those from overseas'

Which of course at different times included us all.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastIaugh,,.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Who flooded the country with benefit scroungers and undesirables? Errrrr here's a clue - begins with L - jokers - a bit like you. I wonder if that nice Mr Vaz is off to look for that newly arrived chap who did one day at the car wash and promptly disappeared? Oh how we laughed last at LastLaugh in all his numerous (mostly banned) guises. You really are a Banker. Not sure I spelled that right.[/p][/quote]You dont even have the intelligence to come up with your own user name...why should anyone merit your comments... The hypocrisy you expose with your comment about 'banned guises' after being banned umpteen times yourself, is indicative of those who would still vote for the more extreme side of this unelected government and the government itself...[/p][/quote]Try buttoning it, we all know your stand on those from overseas[/p][/quote]You know nothing about how I stand, other than what you surmise, in regard's to 'those from overseas' Which of course at different times included us all. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -3

5:53pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh,,, says...

LastLaugh2 wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Stamper2 wrote:
'Most of these are disabled'!!!!

Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment????

The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is.

As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up.

About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.
No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..
Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo.
As thick as..
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: 'Most of these are disabled'!!!! Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment???? The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is. As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up. About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.[/p][/quote]No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..[/p][/quote]Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo.[/p][/quote]As thick as.. LastLaugh,,,
  • Score: -5

7:52pm Fri 10 Jan 14

LastLaugh2 says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
LastLaugh2 wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Stamper2 wrote:
'Most of these are disabled'!!!!

Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment????

The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is.

As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up.

About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.
No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..
Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo.
As thick as..
Two short planks Brother?
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: 'Most of these are disabled'!!!! Give me a break! Christ, are we now actually purporting to have an unusually large population of disabled folk living in Basildon? And why is there this assumption that all disabled are on benefits or need extra rooms for life saving equipment???? The reality is we probably only have a handful of such disabled households in Basildon, but they are normally extremely vocal so it seems much larger an issue than it is. As Government measures have shown, many disabled lie on their applications for benefits, hence they are no longer able to claim them now these things are at last being checked up. About time I say. I am fed up with my council tax funding these scroungers. I am, on the other hand, fair, so I have to point out that I am happy for the tax to be used on genuinely disabled households. I think the actual reality is that there are not as many as the disabled campaigners are alleging. It clear hurts their cause when so many of their so called disabled 'compatriots' turn out not to be disabled, and to have made fraudulent benefit applications.[/p][/quote]No point trying to debate with you I feel...just go back to paying your minuscule tax, while believing that gives you a great say in the life of millions of people...everybody pays tax of a kind, why you and others feel those who contribute income tax have a bigger say in things would be interesting to hear..[/p][/quote]Mind you as I deal in only cash and cant count, and being rather fluid in my place of abode, I am rather flush at the mo.[/p][/quote]As thick as..[/p][/quote]Two short planks Brother? LastLaugh2
  • Score: -2

12:58pm Sat 11 Jan 14

Nebs says...

LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party.
They are all at it.
[quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party. They are all at it. Nebs
  • Score: 1

11:35am Sun 12 Jan 14

profondo asbo says...

Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party.
They are all at it.
some gerrymandering is democratic. how many votes it takes to get an MP into westminster? why should it only take 50,000 scottish votes when it takes 70,000 english votes. too many scottish mps. boundary re-draws to rebalance voter numbers are democratic because democracy is a representation of your constituents, not how big geographically your constituency is.
[quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party. They are all at it.[/p][/quote]some gerrymandering is democratic. how many votes it takes to get an MP into westminster? why should it only take 50,000 scottish votes when it takes 70,000 english votes. too many scottish mps. boundary re-draws to rebalance voter numbers are democratic because democracy is a representation of your constituents, not how big geographically your constituency is. profondo asbo
  • Score: 0

10:58am Mon 13 Jan 14

Stamper2 says...

Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say?

They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.

Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........
Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all. Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........ Stamper2
  • Score: 0

4:38pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Lauqhlast. says...

Stamper2 wrote:
Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say?

They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.

Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........
Can you define what you mean by scroungers?

More money is paid to pensioners and those who work in the way of working tax credit than those who dont work!

Do they qualify as 'scroungers'?

Only 3% of all benefit money goes to those unemployed.

And of course these unemployed pay tax too, as does everyone in the country.

The ignorance of the masses in regards to benefits (entitlements) is fed by the media and the sheer laziness and/or dumbness of society into just what is paid out and what isnt and indeed why it is paid out...
[quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all. Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........[/p][/quote]Can you define what you mean by scroungers? More money is paid to pensioners and those who work in the way of working tax credit than those who dont work! Do they qualify as 'scroungers'? Only 3% of all benefit money goes to those unemployed. And of course these unemployed pay tax too, as does everyone in the country. The ignorance of the masses in regards to benefits (entitlements) is fed by the media and the sheer laziness and/or dumbness of society into just what is paid out and what isnt and indeed why it is paid out... Lauqhlast.
  • Score: 3

4:50pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Alekhine says...

Too many taking out much more than they have ever paid in equals system collapse. You don't have to be Einstein.
Too many taking out much more than they have ever paid in equals system collapse. You don't have to be Einstein. Alekhine
  • Score: -3

5:09pm Mon 13 Jan 14

yagetme says...

Stamper2 wrote:
Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say?

They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.

Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........
'Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.'

Because (according to the DWP), 97% of all State Benefits (bar pensions) go to those who are working and are taxpayers.
[quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all. Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........[/p][/quote]'Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.' Because (according to the DWP), 97% of all State Benefits (bar pensions) go to those who are working and are taxpayers. yagetme
  • Score: 3

8:54pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Lauqhlast. says...

Alekhine wrote:
Too many taking out much more than they have ever paid in equals system collapse. You don't have to be Einstein.
So a female pensioner living to 105 receiving a state pension at 60 and who might never have worked or did for a while, can be deemed a scrounger ?

In that case might not all pensioners, going by your stance, be considered scroungers?
[quote][p][bold]Alekhine[/bold] wrote: Too many taking out much more than they have ever paid in equals system collapse. You don't have to be Einstein.[/p][/quote]So a female pensioner living to 105 receiving a state pension at 60 and who might never have worked or did for a while, can be deemed a scrounger ? In that case might not all pensioners, going by your stance, be considered scroungers? Lauqhlast.
  • Score: 5

8:55pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Lauqhlast. says...

yagetme wrote:
Stamper2 wrote:
Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say?

They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.

Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........
'Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.'

Because (according to the DWP), 97% of all State Benefits (bar pensions) go to those who are working and are taxpayers.
Bingo!
[quote][p][bold]yagetme[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all. Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........[/p][/quote]'Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.' Because (according to the DWP), 97% of all State Benefits (bar pensions) go to those who are working and are taxpayers.[/p][/quote]Bingo! Lauqhlast.
  • Score: 2

8:57pm Mon 13 Jan 14

Lauqhlast. says...

Stamper2 wrote:
Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say?

They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all.

Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........
Well you can tell them apart because the vast majority of them are either pensioners or working.
[quote][p][bold]Stamper2[/bold] wrote: Why shouldn't tax payers have more of a say? They are paying for all the scroungers and benefits claimants after all. Perhaps it is the scroungers and benefit claimants who should have less of a say? The problem is, you cannot tell some of them apart........[/p][/quote]Well you can tell them apart because the vast majority of them are either pensioners or working. Lauqhlast.
  • Score: 4

8:37pm Tue 14 Jan 14

Dr Martin says...

profondo asbo wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
Nebs wrote:
LastLaugh,,, wrote:
One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.
Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.
You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?
I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.
The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.
Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party.
They are all at it.
some gerrymandering is democratic. how many votes it takes to get an MP into westminster? why should it only take 50,000 scottish votes when it takes 70,000 english votes. too many scottish mps. boundary re-draws to rebalance voter numbers are democratic because democracy is a representation of your constituents, not how big geographically your constituency is.
What are you up to Profondo? got some pro stoners that need to see the error of their ways
[quote][p][bold]profondo asbo[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nebs[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]LastLaugh,,,[/bold] wrote: One reason (among many) not to vote tory next GE.[/p][/quote]Maybe the 620 could move to an area with a labour controlled council.[/p][/quote]You mean a form of gerrymandering? The tories are well known for that aren't they?[/p][/quote]I think all parties use it to their advantage where possible.[/p][/quote]The tories in particular..And you are in favour of that.[/p][/quote]Why would you think that I think that, especially as I made it clear that ALL parties use it. The worst are probably the Lib Dems, who want to change the whole system of voting so as they get more seats. Then you have the Scottish parties, who want to leave the UK and so so leave the rest of what is left with a permanent conservative government. You could be right about the tories, maybe the tories are the real driving force behind Scottish independence as they are the party that will gain the most from it. Then there is Labour with an open door policy which will clearly benefit their party. They are all at it.[/p][/quote]some gerrymandering is democratic. how many votes it takes to get an MP into westminster? why should it only take 50,000 scottish votes when it takes 70,000 english votes. too many scottish mps. boundary re-draws to rebalance voter numbers are democratic because democracy is a representation of your constituents, not how big geographically your constituency is.[/p][/quote]What are you up to Profondo? got some pro stoners that need to see the error of their ways Dr Martin
  • Score: -1

Comments are closed on this article.

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