Council chief: gritters not to blame for snow chaos (From Southend Standard)
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Southend Council chief: gritters not to blame for snow chaos
8:00am Thursday 14th March 2013 in Echo News
Gridlock in Leigh on Monday night
SOUTHEND’S gritters were not to blame for the gridlock that brought the town to a standstill.
Tony Cox, the Tory councillor responsible for transport at Southend Council, defended his team’s actions yesterday and claimed no more could have been done to prevent the chaos on the roads.
Citing temperatures that dropped to nearly -10C in the wind, he said the weather had conspired against the town’s commuters.
Mr Cox said: “I totally understand people’s frustrations - I spent two hours trying to get from Cuckoo Corner to Shoebury.
“However, I will defend the gritters to the hilt.
“They were out all weekend and have been out all night doing the best job they possibly can.”
The council has four gritting trucks to treat the borough’s roads, and three quad bikes fitted with special salt dispensers to tackle pavements and pedestrianised areas.
It has a list of “priority roads” which it treats first, although the order in which that happens and the quantity of salt used is dependent on weather reports and information from police.
Under the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003, the authority has a legal duty “to ensure, so far as reasonable practicable, the safe passage along a highway is not endangered by snow and ice”.
However, it is not required to treat all roads or pavements within the borough.
Salt stocks are usually built up before the winter, but Mr Cox said there was no shortfall before Monday’s snowfall.
However, he pointed out wet weather during the morning meant the council was unable to send out its trucks out until the afternoon, as grit washes off damp surfaces.
He said: “We acted over the weekend and as soon as we could on Monday, but the wet weather was an issue.
“The wind chill was also a factor and, once the gridlock set in, the gritters were as trapped as other vehicles.
“I appreciate that people have said roads elsewhere were not as bad, but in my opinion that had nothing to do with the gritting system.
“We did exactly what we have done all winter - Southend simply copped it on this occasion.”
Comments(35)
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
8:22am Thu 14 Mar 13
Shoebury_Cyclist
says...
8:23am Thu 14 Mar 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:* 'roads'.
Funny how rods up to the Southend municipal boundary - gritted by Essex County Council - were good, and as soon as you entered Southend they were sheet ice.
marshman
says...
8:48am Thu 14 Mar 13
BASILBRUSH
says...
9:20am Thu 14 Mar 13
Kent by all accounts was far worse with friends of mine taking 6.5 hours to travel their usual 20 minutes.
I'm surprised by only 4 Gritters, but the explanation seems reasonable.
Perhaps the biggest problem and cause of incidents was usual incompetence driving in these conditions, lack of Snow tyres and people not using headlights..... Just a thought ;)
perini
says...
9:35am Thu 14 Mar 13
perini
says...
9:36am Thu 14 Mar 13
j-w
says...
9:42am Thu 14 Mar 13
Not A Native
says...
10:05am Thu 14 Mar 13
I'm guessing I already know the answer to this, but did whoever namelessly filed this report actually try to press for answers, or did the echo just chop up a press release to sound as if a reporter spoke to someone?
BASILBRUSH
says...
10:06am Thu 14 Mar 13
perini wrote:"However, he pointed out wet weather during the morning meant the council was unable to send out its trucks out until the afternoon, as grit washes off damp surfaces."
Strange how noone in this area saw the gritters until 2030hrs plus? Yet they'd been out all day - not in Southend they weren't - another load of Tory lies!
What lies? With only 4 trucks in the area, its quite possible 'some' people didnt see them out.
You really think it would have been any different under another administration?
I guarantee you would not be on here praising the Tory's had there been no issues.
DCLEIGH
says...
10:11am Thu 14 Mar 13
I went to Leigh Station at 8.45 having left my house in a light flurry of snow and when I hit Belton Hill it was a bit of a blizzard.
I got stuck in the Leigh Car Park (Fool) for 3 hrs having walked home in carpet slippers and a tee shirt to call a recovery truck.
The recovery trucker helped half a dozen motorists stuck on Belton Hill before we got to my car.
There was no grit and it was impossible to get a grip.
I learnt a lot about not driving if you don't have to !
hothead
says...
10:39am Thu 14 Mar 13
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:exactly the same as last time - Massive difference the moment you hit southend boundary. Maybe the snow is specific to Southend???
Funny how rods up to the Southend municipal boundary - gritted by Essex County Council - were good, and as soon as you entered Southend they were sheet ice.
Noteworthy
says...
10:46am Thu 14 Mar 13
Gridlock, roads were sheet ice, and at a standstill. After another hour and a half going nowhere on the A25 i decided to try the M25 again, I'm oging to run out of fuel anyway, least there's a hard shoulder on the motorway. Luckily I didn't - total journey time - 6.5 hours.
One of my colleagues lives in Brighton. He left the same time as me - 6pm. However, he didn't get home until 7.30am the following morning. He didn't stop, didn't wait at the services, just queued.
A couple of hours in Southend? At least you could have found somewhere to stop, got out and walked. Hard to do that on a Motorway.
perini
says...
10:52am Thu 14 Mar 13
BASILBRUSH wrote:Don't you find it strange that the Fire Brigade, when called out to an accident, commented on lack of gritting; the bus service chief who took the decision to cancel buses because of the state of the roads all agree with the thousands of motorists who also noted no roads were gritted - yet the council muppet getting the grief swears blind they were out and about. Trying to justify yet another c8ck up methinks!
perini wrote: Strange how noone in this area saw the gritters until 2030hrs plus? Yet they'd been out all day - not in Southend they weren't - another load of Tory lies!"However, he pointed out wet weather during the morning meant the council was unable to send out its trucks out until the afternoon, as grit washes off damp surfaces." What lies? With only 4 trucks in the area, its quite possible 'some' people didnt see them out. You really think it would have been any different under another administration? I guarantee you would not be on here praising the Tory's had there been no issues.
Sean4u
says...
11:01am Thu 14 Mar 13
j-w wrote:It might be the case that a -2 overnight, if the wind's not blowing, would be insufficient to cool day-warmed roads enough for ice to form before the dawn. Strong winds at -2 would cool a non-frozen road to -2 more quickly.
They seem to think a chill factor is a real temperature instead of a perceived one.
"Windchill of -10" isn't just for warm-blooded animals who experience a cooling sensation as though the temperature was -10, it works for any body (such as a road) with a temperature above ambient. It tells you something about how quickly that body will reach the ambient temperature.
Wikipedia doesn't mention non-human windchill - I don't know why. Maybe I'm wrong.
Not A Native
says...
12:27pm Thu 14 Mar 13
Sean4u wrote:Trouble is, a quoted windchill of "-10" is calibrated to human sensation. The closer a body is to the ambient temperature, the less the windchill effect. Therefore as roads get close to freezing, this added chill effect will all but disappear.
j-w wrote:It might be the case that a -2 overnight, if the wind's not blowing, would be insufficient to cool day-warmed roads enough for ice to form before the dawn. Strong winds at -2 would cool a non-frozen road to -2 more quickly.
They seem to think a chill factor is a real temperature instead of a perceived one.
"Windchill of -10" isn't just for warm-blooded animals who experience a cooling sensation as though the temperature was -10, it works for any body (such as a road) with a temperature above ambient. It tells you something about how quickly that body will reach the ambient temperature.
Wikipedia doesn't mention non-human windchill - I don't know why. Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaking of 'disappearing' - reminds me of SBC's integrity when it comes to owning up.
Any chance the echo could address this with SBC rather than just acting as their mouthpiece?
sjreynolds143
says...
12:44pm Thu 14 Mar 13
hothead wrote:Yes of course it is!
Shoebury_Cyclist wrote:exactly the same as last time - Massive difference the moment you hit southend boundary. Maybe the snow is specific to Southend???
Funny how rods up to the Southend municipal boundary - gritted by Essex County Council - were good, and as soon as you entered Southend they were sheet ice.
Haven't you ever wondered why Kent always cops it more than Southend? It's because they stick out into the North Sea more, and it is often where the NE winds bringing the snow make landfall.
I can point to a number of times that my parents in Thorpe Bay have had worse snow than us in Leigh - same issue. And on Monday night / Tuesday, that's again exactly what happened to Southend compared with the rest of south Essex.
emcee
says...
12:57pm Thu 14 Mar 13
1. Four trucks and three quads are never going to cover all the main roads in this town so the council need to double the numbers.
2. Why were some roads coverd twice (I know for a fact) but others not touched, Southchurch Road, for example?
3. Why were some minor roads gritted (even twice) when some major roads were not?
4. Why did they pack up at around 1am? They did not carry on all night as Mr Cox suggested. Again, I know this.
5. It seems Mr Cox does not know what is going on with the gritting in this town and, therefore, is not suitable for his responsibilities. He needs to collate all the logs from the gritting managers and come clean.
pendulum
says...
1:30pm Thu 14 Mar 13
DogsMessInLeigh
says...
1:35pm Thu 14 Mar 13
I was on the A127 prince Ave at 5.pm....lethal road surface 5mph was safe as you could not brake hard, no evidence of grit....as when grit is added the ice melts.
I would say the trucks were'nt mobilised for the A127/A13 until 6-7pm.....far too late as the carnage told.
emcee
says...
1:43pm Thu 14 Mar 13
-
I think it may be time to test this out. Something does not add up. Mr Cox gives us his "spin" yet all sorts of evidence is heavily stacked against what he says. I have a feeling his statement to "...defend the gritters to the hilt" may come back to haunt him.
Nebs
says...
2:02pm Thu 14 Mar 13
supermadmax
says...
2:26pm Thu 14 Mar 13
Nothing like manning up & taking responsibility is there tony ?
#Cox out.
emcee
says...
2:51pm Thu 14 Mar 13
Nebs wrote:Yes, exactly like ECC.
How about putting gps in the gritters, and have an interactive map so as people can see exactly where they have been, where they are now, and where they are going.
However, I feel not is all that it seems at gritting towers. Someone, somewhere is trying to cover up the gritting inefficiencies. There is quite a bit of evidence to support this and while these inefficiencies are rife I doubt SBC will ever entertain gps on the gritting trucks (and quads). After all, they would not want to throw more fuel on their "out of control" fire... someones political career may go up in flames.
zipster31
says...
3:38pm Thu 14 Mar 13
perini
says...
3:54pm Thu 14 Mar 13
zipster31 wrote:Can we assume that you, along with thousands of others, think Mr Cox isn't quite telling the truth?
What a load of rubbish! All areas outside of the Southend Borough were fine, roads had been gritted and were clear. Not a gritter in sight in the Southend Borough all day and night!
jolllyboy
says...
5:36pm Thu 14 Mar 13
gary 51
says...
7:11pm Thu 14 Mar 13
siddymint
says...
9:05pm Thu 14 Mar 13
No answer.
At 5.30 the senior council person for gritters I was told was attempted to be contacted but was busy in a meeting and could not be distrurted.
I also know that a number of coucillors were out actually shoveling snow to try and get vehicles moving.
.
emcee
says...
2:31am Fri 15 Mar 13
1. It seems, the gritters were not out until it was too late.
2. Only some roads were gritted and with so few gritting vehicles this is no surprise.
3. Some roads were gritted twice whereas some were not gritted at all.
4. Some minor roads that are NOT on the designated gritting list were gritted.
5. Gritters STOPPED gritting at approximately 1am or shortly afterwards and NOT through the night.
-
Now, this does not look too good from where I am sitting. Maybe Mr Cox is "assuming" what he has told us is what actually happened and is oblivious to what really happened. Either way, it seems he is not in full control of this gritting situation.
emcee
says...
2:34am Fri 15 Mar 13
emcee wrote:Actually let me clarify:
The facts that I can, so far, establish:
1. It seems, the gritters were not out until it was too late.
2. Only some roads were gritted and with so few gritting vehicles this is no surprise.
3. Some roads were gritted twice whereas some were not gritted at all.
4. Some minor roads that are NOT on the designated gritting list were gritted.
5. Gritters STOPPED gritting at approximately 1am or shortly afterwards and NOT through the night.
-
Now, this does not look too good from where I am sitting. Maybe Mr Cox is "assuming" what he has told us is what actually happened and is oblivious to what really happened. Either way, it seems he is not in full control of this gritting situation.
2.Some roads were gritted twice whereas MOST were not gritted at all.
5.Gritters STOPPED gritting at approximately 1am, or shortly afterwards, and did NOT go on through the night.
perini
says...
9:51am Fri 15 Mar 13
Echo - can't you try and get a real response from Mr Cox
saarfender
says...
10:24am Fri 15 Mar 13
That gets rid of duplication, and rather than having 4 gritters only for Southend (which can't cope) they can be used by ECC as well as ECC fleet (which obviously can cope as they gritted up to the Southend boundary).
Efficiency of scale I believe is the term. It's not only gritting that this can be applied to.
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
3:04pm Sun 17 Mar 13
and all the other thicker than brown smelly stuff posters why not actually learn something about gritting before making yourselves look even more stupid than your names suggest.
The roads were wet, you can not grit on wet roads as the grit washes off, Southend was hit worse than much of the rest of Essex, if the council had gritted on the wet roads and then the weather turned for the better you would all be moaning the council had wasted the grit.
If you think you can do a better job why not go to the council and submit a tender to take over the operation of gritting...
No thought not
emcee
says...
1:30pm Wed 20 Mar 13
Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:Ho Hum.
perini, emcee, siddymint, gary 51, jolllyboy, zipster3, DogsMessInLeigh
and all the other thicker than brown smelly stuff posters why not actually learn something about gritting before making yourselves look even more stupid than your names suggest.
The roads were wet, you can not grit on wet roads as the grit washes off, Southend was hit worse than much of the rest of Essex, if the council had gritted on the wet roads and then the weather turned for the better you would all be moaning the council had wasted the grit.
If you think you can do a better job why not go to the council and submit a tender to take over the operation of gritting...
No thought not
EssexBoy1968 says...
8:17am Thu 14 Mar 13