Teens reprimanded over explosive theft that left one blind

Southend Standard: Harvey after the accident Harvey after the accident

THE police probe has ended into the theft of explosives which left a teenager blind in one eye.

British Transport Police decided to reprimand Harvey Rowe, 16, and a 17-year-old friend while cautioning another 18-year-old for stealing rail detonators from a Network Rail depot in Leigh in August.

Consequently Harvey was left blind in one eye after the boys put a box, containing the explosives, on a camp fire in the skate park next to the depot behind Leigh Station.

However Harvey, a pupil at the Belfairs High School, may reject the decision.

His mum Claire, 46?, of Herschell Road, Leigh, said: “I don’t know if accepting this reprimand is saying he is guilty.

“They intend to reprimand him or if he doesn’t agree it will go to court.”

Police visited the family at home on Friday to offer the resolution after more than three months of investigation.

But Mrs Rowe is adamant Network Rail should be blamed for a gap in the fence through which the boys gained access to the site behind Leigh Train Station - and she feels taking a box from a skip should not count as theft.

The mum, who is considering suing Network Rail over Harvey’s injuries, said: “I would like to prosecute Network Rail because they shouldn’t have been allowed to get the detonators.

“Whatever else followed, the detonators shouldn’t have been in the skip.”

An Office of Rail Regulation investigation into security at the depot is still ongoing.

A British Transport Police (BTP) spokeswoman said: “After returning on police bail, two of the boys received a reprimand. The other received a caution for theft.”

Comments (34)

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10:12am Wed 28 Nov 12

MitchLive says...

Theft. Regardless if it was in a skip or not. On private property too. Trespassing. Theft. Starting fires. But of course, his Mum Claire (46?) obviously thinks her son is a little angel and no doubt 'he's a good boy really'.
Theft. Regardless if it was in a skip or not. On private property too. Trespassing. Theft. Starting fires. But of course, his Mum Claire (46?) obviously thinks her son is a little angel and no doubt 'he's a good boy really'. MitchLive

10:22am Wed 28 Nov 12

notinwestcliffanymore says...

If mrs Rowe leaves the upstairs bathroom window open, is she to blame if she is burgled, If that thief then slips and falls down her stairs is she to blame if he breaks his neck should she pay compensation.
If mrs Rowe leaves the upstairs bathroom window open, is she to blame if she is burgled, If that thief then slips and falls down her stairs is she to blame if he breaks his neck should she pay compensation. notinwestcliffanymore

10:24am Wed 28 Nov 12

Elephantman2 says...

Kids messing about with dire consequences; I think the result of their actions is punishment enough. No doubt the flog-em and hang-em brigade will disagree.

We do seem to like to demonise and label our youth as criminals at every opportunity; or is it only the people who post on the Echo website who do this? It's a shame we don't have a full history of how these people who post behaved when they were immature youths/adults (mind you some still are)!
Kids messing about with dire consequences; I think the result of their actions is punishment enough. No doubt the flog-em and hang-em brigade will disagree. We do seem to like to demonise and label our youth as criminals at every opportunity; or is it only the people who post on the Echo website who do this? It's a shame we don't have a full history of how these people who post behaved when they were immature youths/adults (mind you some still are)! Elephantman2

10:26am Wed 28 Nov 12

Eric Whim says...

hope he's learned his lesson - he's had the biggest punishment he'll ever have for this 'prank'.

Learn a lesson, man up and move on.
hope he's learned his lesson - he's had the biggest punishment he'll ever have for this 'prank'. Learn a lesson, man up and move on. Eric Whim

10:29am Wed 28 Nov 12

Elephantman2 says...

Bearing in mind my earleir post; if his Mum is not going to accept the reprimand; perhaps the lad can sue her for not teaching him the difference between right and wrong behaviour?
Bearing in mind my earleir post; if his Mum is not going to accept the reprimand; perhaps the lad can sue her for not teaching him the difference between right and wrong behaviour? Elephantman2

10:30am Wed 28 Nov 12

DogsMessInLeigh says...

He may reject the decision to give a small word in his ear....and may go all the way to court instead...?
And no doubt he is being encouraged by his Mum by the sounds of it, they where trespassing, stole something that was not theirs,started a fire and then throwing it on and Bam....he lost an eye, and they want to blame the rail company.....look closer to home, take it on the chin you've lost an eye over your actions just accept the reprimand you have payed dearly already.

Go to the park to skate and not do things you know you shouldn't be doing.....with in reason of course.
He may reject the decision to give a small word in his ear....and may go all the way to court instead...? And no doubt he is being encouraged by his Mum by the sounds of it, they where trespassing, stole something that was not theirs,started a fire and then throwing it on and Bam....he lost an eye, and they want to blame the rail company.....look closer to home, take it on the chin you've lost an eye over your actions just accept the reprimand you have payed dearly already. Go to the park to skate and not do things you know you shouldn't be doing.....with in reason of course. DogsMessInLeigh

11:11am Wed 28 Nov 12

J_blond says...

So Claire (46?) is blaming Network Rail for the gap in the fence?

Did Network Rail force her son to go through the gap in the fence?

No

It was his decision to use that gap for his own misdeeds.

So accepting the reprimand means he is guilty? Yes, because it is not Network Rail's fault that he went through the gap in the fence.

Move on!
So Claire (46?) is blaming Network Rail for the gap in the fence? Did Network Rail force her son to go through the gap in the fence? No It was his decision to use that gap for his own misdeeds. So accepting the reprimand means he is guilty? Yes, because it is not Network Rail's fault that he went through the gap in the fence. Move on! J_blond

11:51am Wed 28 Nov 12

pendulum says...

Bad parent. She's teaching him to avoid taking personal responsibility for his actions. He was old enough to know better and committed several crimes, losing an eye was unfortunate but it was his doing, there's noone else to blame but the boys who were involved. A reprimand is just a slap on the wrist, man up and take it.
Bad parent. She's teaching him to avoid taking personal responsibility for his actions. He was old enough to know better and committed several crimes, losing an eye was unfortunate but it was his doing, there's noone else to blame but the boys who were involved. A reprimand is just a slap on the wrist, man up and take it. pendulum

12:07pm Wed 28 Nov 12

notinwestcliffanymore says...

The only way this story could be worse was if an innocent child playing in the skate park went to look/investigate this bonfire and lost his eye how would mrs rowe feel then
The only way this story could be worse was if an innocent child playing in the skate park went to look/investigate this bonfire and lost his eye how would mrs rowe feel then notinwestcliffanymore

1:54pm Wed 28 Nov 12

emcee says...

It seems to me that his mother is worried that her son will be labelled as "guilty" (which he is) because it could jeopardise her being able to sue Network Rail.
Ho hum.
It seems to me that his mother is worried that her son will be labelled as "guilty" (which he is) because it could jeopardise her being able to sue Network Rail. Ho hum. emcee

3:45pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Joe Wildman says...

His mother does not want him to accept a reprimand, she should take a moment to think the by saying yes to the reprimand it will only stay on his record until he turns 18.

No matter how many time Network Rail fixed the fence it was smashed down again, I am NOT saying this boy done it but, he did knowingly and willfully tresspass onto the railway, he or his friends did knowingly and willfully remove items from a skip, he or his friends knowingly and willfully started a fire, he or his friends knowingly and willfully threw the detonators onto the fire.

They are all of an age and I take it intelligent enough to know that their actions where against the law, so it was their actions and only their actions that caused the incident that resulted in this boy loosing an eye.

It is nobodys fault but their own.
His mother does not want him to accept a reprimand, she should take a moment to think the by saying yes to the reprimand it will only stay on his record until he turns 18. No matter how many time Network Rail fixed the fence it was smashed down again, I am NOT saying this boy done it but, he did knowingly and willfully tresspass onto the railway, he or his friends did knowingly and willfully remove items from a skip, he or his friends knowingly and willfully started a fire, he or his friends knowingly and willfully threw the detonators onto the fire. They are all of an age and I take it intelligent enough to know that their actions where against the law, so it was their actions and only their actions that caused the incident that resulted in this boy loosing an eye. It is nobodys fault but their own. Joe Wildman

4:28pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Brunning999 says...

Stop moaning mother he is either guilty or Not guilty.

If I left my front door open and someone walked in and nicked something that is burglary end of!!

If you are so worried about your precious pride take it to court after all a caution is still a recordable offence.

Personally I would say take tne soft option a caution, a court appearance will having a serious effect.
Stop moaning mother he is either guilty or Not guilty. If I left my front door open and someone walked in and nicked something that is burglary end of!! If you are so worried about your precious pride take it to court after all a caution is still a recordable offence. Personally I would say take tne soft option a caution, a court appearance will having a serious effect. Brunning999

5:29pm Wed 28 Nov 12

sosad 1 says...

this is for harvey, terrible thing that happend you. your old enough to know that,at your age i was doing worse but i was lucky not to be injured like you. tell your mum and family to move on. good luck mate
this is for harvey, terrible thing that happend you. your old enough to know that,at your age i was doing worse but i was lucky not to be injured like you. tell your mum and family to move on. good luck mate sosad 1

5:55pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Nebs says...

I thought explosives were supposed to be kept under lock and key.
I thought explosives were supposed to be kept under lock and key. Nebs

6:49pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Devils Advocate says...

What a load of honest people we have in Essex, or at least on the comments page of the "Echo."
When I was a lad, it was one of the major achievements aqmong your peers, in school to trespass on the railway, pick up the detonators that had been replaced by new ones and dumped by the equipment in which they are used (I won't detail in case some kids don't know) then see who can make the biggest bang!
That was back in the 1950's and the police came to the schools and told us all off, threatened us with death or worse, and told the railway workers off for leaving the old but still "live" detonators where children could just pick them up.

Now here we are, some sixty years later, and they are putting explosive in rubbish skips? Do you really believe that kids won't get wind of these "bangers" being put in the rubbish and go for them. Especially when you think how many supposed "Adults" love to let of fireworks late of a night to wind up their neighbours!
What chance kids then?
Strikes me you are all to ready to lay into other peoples kids or guardians, but do you all know right this second where your kids or grandkids are and what they are doing? Bet's are off that you don't!
What a load of honest people we have in Essex, or at least on the comments page of the "Echo." When I was a lad, it was one of the major achievements aqmong your peers, in school to trespass on the railway, pick up the detonators that had been replaced by new ones and dumped by the equipment in which they are used (I won't detail in case some kids don't know) then see who can make the biggest bang! That was back in the 1950's and the police came to the schools and told us all off, threatened us with death or worse, and told the railway workers off for leaving the old but still "live" detonators where children could just pick them up. Now here we are, some sixty years later, and they are putting explosive in rubbish skips? Do you really believe that kids won't get wind of these "bangers" being put in the rubbish and go for them. Especially when you think how many supposed "Adults" love to let of fireworks late of a night to wind up their neighbours! What chance kids then? Strikes me you are all to ready to lay into other peoples kids or guardians, but do you all know right this second where your kids or grandkids are and what they are doing? Bet's are off that you don't! Devils Advocate

6:58pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Joe Wildman says...

What proof is there that the detonators were in the skip?

Is there CCTV footage?

Just asking...
What proof is there that the detonators were in the skip? Is there CCTV footage? Just asking... Joe Wildman

8:13pm Wed 28 Nov 12

UKGovnor says...

A 16 year old thief trespasses on someone elses property, hurts himself and his mother wants to sue the landowner...she sound like she is just a money grabber and not the caring mother who should be teaching her son right from wrong. Shame on you you so called mother.
A 16 year old thief trespasses on someone elses property, hurts himself and his mother wants to sue the landowner...she sound like she is just a money grabber and not the caring mother who should be teaching her son right from wrong. Shame on you you so called mother. UKGovnor

8:24pm Wed 28 Nov 12

DogsMessInLeigh says...

Devils Advocate wrote:
What a load of honest people we have in Essex, or at least on the comments page of the "Echo."
When I was a lad, it was one of the major achievements aqmong your peers, in school to trespass on the railway, pick up the detonators that had been replaced by new ones and dumped by the equipment in which they are used (I won't detail in case some kids don't know) then see who can make the biggest bang!
That was back in the 1950's and the police came to the schools and told us all off, threatened us with death or worse, and told the railway workers off for leaving the old but still "live" detonators where children could just pick them up.

Now here we are, some sixty years later, and they are putting explosive in rubbish skips? Do you really believe that kids won't get wind of these "bangers" being put in the rubbish and go for them. Especially when you think how many supposed "Adults" love to let of fireworks late of a night to wind up their neighbours!
What chance kids then?
Strikes me you are all to ready to lay into other peoples kids or guardians, but do you all know right this second where your kids or grandkids are and what they are doing? Bet's are off that you don't!
No i think its that fact that the mum says its someone else's fault other than her sons...and that her son has not decided to accept the reprimand that got to so many,...in your day when you was doing such stuff and you got caught i suspect you would have got a whack round the head and took your punishment like a man, sadly todays world has changed, we all did stuff when younger but didn't blame it on a gap in someone's fence hoping to get a cash settlement.
[quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: What a load of honest people we have in Essex, or at least on the comments page of the "Echo." When I was a lad, it was one of the major achievements aqmong your peers, in school to trespass on the railway, pick up the detonators that had been replaced by new ones and dumped by the equipment in which they are used (I won't detail in case some kids don't know) then see who can make the biggest bang! That was back in the 1950's and the police came to the schools and told us all off, threatened us with death or worse, and told the railway workers off for leaving the old but still "live" detonators where children could just pick them up. Now here we are, some sixty years later, and they are putting explosive in rubbish skips? Do you really believe that kids won't get wind of these "bangers" being put in the rubbish and go for them. Especially when you think how many supposed "Adults" love to let of fireworks late of a night to wind up their neighbours! What chance kids then? Strikes me you are all to ready to lay into other peoples kids or guardians, but do you all know right this second where your kids or grandkids are and what they are doing? Bet's are off that you don't![/p][/quote]No i think its that fact that the mum says its someone else's fault other than her sons...and that her son has not decided to accept the reprimand that got to so many,...in your day when you was doing such stuff and you got caught i suspect you would have got a whack round the head and took your punishment like a man, sadly todays world has changed, we all did stuff when younger but didn't blame it on a gap in someone's fence hoping to get a cash settlement. DogsMessInLeigh

8:36pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Joe Wildman says...

For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice.

1. Community work to earn their benifts.

2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person.

3. Extermination! (joke)
For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice. 1. Community work to earn their benifts. 2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person. 3. Extermination! (joke) Joe Wildman

9:36pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Devils Advocate says...

Joe Wildman wrote:
For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice.

1. Community work to earn their benifts.

2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person.

3. Extermination! (joke)
Do you not think a little of the responsibility lies with the "Work providers?" Instead of maximising their already grossly obscene profits by taking their factories abroad to where people are cheap, whilst still charging inflationary prices to the people here who used to work for them! (I am quoting Gillette and Twinings again.) Their would be work for many, many more. Then add the fact that British businessmen had not a clue how to mass produce a car, so they took their money and invested it in Japan, then Germany, thereby ensuring this countries car production was given to our one time deadly enemies!
That's where the work problems started!

As for National Service, It stopped a couple of years before I got my turn. Believe it or not I was really, really looking forward to that. I think perhaps lots of todays youngsters want to play with guns etc. and I think it is time that returned. Only thing is, pay those that join a decent wage and show them how much better it actually is to work for a living whilst they serve.
[quote][p][bold]Joe Wildman[/bold] wrote: For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice. 1. Community work to earn their benifts. 2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person. 3. Extermination! (joke)[/p][/quote]Do you not think a little of the responsibility lies with the "Work providers?" Instead of maximising their already grossly obscene profits by taking their factories abroad to where people are cheap, whilst still charging inflationary prices to the people here who used to work for them! (I am quoting Gillette and Twinings again.) Their would be work for many, many more. Then add the fact that British businessmen had not a clue how to mass produce a car, so they took their money and invested it in Japan, then Germany, thereby ensuring this countries car production was given to our one time deadly enemies! That's where the work problems started! As for National Service, It stopped a couple of years before I got my turn. Believe it or not I was really, really looking forward to that. I think perhaps lots of todays youngsters want to play with guns etc. and I think it is time that returned. Only thing is, pay those that join a decent wage and show them how much better it actually is to work for a living whilst they serve. Devils Advocate

9:58pm Wed 28 Nov 12

mick485 says...

I bet mrs Rowe spends loads of time at bingo and of course she's just after a compensation claim?? Maybe she's genuinely concerned that a large company such as Network Rail haven't deemed it necessary to secure explosives so no one, regardless of age can access them, I think it's called a duty of care. I would imagine that if has one poster stated someones child had been innocently walking past and been injured they would be asking the same question as mrs Rowe.
If kids see a hole in a fence generaly they'll go through it and maybe get up to no good, it's kind of what kids do unfortunately, a few people on here have got their heads well and truly buried in the the sand if they think their kids won't at some point do something stupid or illegal.
Some rediculous comparisons being made between this and breaking into someone's house, what kind of idiot is unable to see the obvious difference?
I bet mrs Rowe spends loads of time at bingo and of course she's just after a compensation claim?? Maybe she's genuinely concerned that a large company such as Network Rail haven't deemed it necessary to secure explosives so no one, regardless of age can access them, I think it's called a duty of care. I would imagine that if has one poster stated someones child had been innocently walking past and been injured they would be asking the same question as mrs Rowe. If kids see a hole in a fence generaly they'll go through it and maybe get up to no good, it's kind of what kids do unfortunately, a few people on here have got their heads well and truly buried in the the sand if they think their kids won't at some point do something stupid or illegal. Some rediculous comparisons being made between this and breaking into someone's house, what kind of idiot is unable to see the obvious difference? mick485

10:06pm Wed 28 Nov 12

DogsMessInLeigh says...

at 17 he should be chasing girls and not sneaking around a train yard making a camp fire and putting things that explode on it.
at 17 he should be chasing girls and not sneaking around a train yard making a camp fire and putting things that explode on it. DogsMessInLeigh

11:37pm Wed 28 Nov 12

Joe Wildman says...

My brother lives out in the USA, his garden has a 8ft fence round it, one night he heard screams come from the garden upon investigating he found three youths had climbed over the fence and broke into the house only to come face to face with, Beretta, Luger, and Sten his three Cane Corso's, who did not take too kindly to them coming in!

They were bitten but flew over the fence as if they were olympic champions!

No action was taken against the bro or dogs.
My brother lives out in the USA, his garden has a 8ft fence round it, one night he heard screams come from the garden upon investigating he found three youths had climbed over the fence and broke into the house only to come face to face with, Beretta, Luger, and Sten his three Cane Corso's, who did not take too kindly to them coming in! They were bitten but flew over the fence as if they were olympic champions! No action was taken against the bro or dogs. Joe Wildman

8:01am Thu 29 Nov 12

EssexPerson says...

How can they have the audacity to claim that taking items left in a skip on private property doesnt count as theft!!
Not wanting to pigeon-hole everyone together but this story highlights the general problem with society today, its always someone elses fault, people can't accept blame anymore.
Whether or not the detonators were poorly/wrongly stored is a different investigation but this shouldn't distract from the fact the kids were trespassing and guilty of theft.
They should accept the fair (investigation) outcome and move on.
Sorry for the kid but (painful) lesson hopefully learnt by him and his mates and they wont doing anything so **** stupid again.
How can they have the audacity to claim that taking items left in a skip on private property doesnt count as theft!! Not wanting to pigeon-hole everyone together but this story highlights the general problem with society today, its always someone elses fault, people can't accept blame anymore. Whether or not the detonators were poorly/wrongly stored is a different investigation but this shouldn't distract from the fact the kids were trespassing and guilty of theft. They should accept the fair (investigation) outcome and move on. Sorry for the kid but (painful) lesson hopefully learnt by him and his mates and they wont doing anything so **** stupid again. EssexPerson

8:42am Thu 29 Nov 12

largo1 says...

Joe Wildman wrote:
For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice.

1. Community work to earn their benifts.

2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person.

3. Extermination! (joke)
national service? err no thanks we're not in the dark ages anymore haha
[quote][p][bold]Joe Wildman[/bold] wrote: For any youth who is medically fit not in a job or education they should be given a choice. 1. Community work to earn their benifts. 2. National Service, not necessarily going to war zones but learn the discipline that creates a better person. 3. Extermination! (joke)[/p][/quote]national service? err no thanks we're not in the dark ages anymore haha largo1

5:48pm Thu 29 Nov 12

jolllyboy says...

So theft is okay, trespass is okay and neither your fault if temptation is there. the law is an ****.Reprimand - gosh that will stop them next time the fear of being told off - wow.
So theft is okay, trespass is okay and neither your fault if temptation is there. the law is an ****.Reprimand - gosh that will stop them next time the fear of being told off - wow. jolllyboy

11:03pm Thu 29 Nov 12

Devils Advocate says...

Does anyone remember the time when a survey was carried out to find out exactly how many of us were honest, or at least, believed they were honest? We see a lot lately about expenses, but how many of you have never fiddled a little bit of mileage or upped the meal claim by a few quid? Never "Borrowed" a bit of stationary from the office? The survey returned that an amazingly high percentage of us "Nick" a little, but do not consider it a crime. Perhaps something about "Casting the first stone" is more relevant today than it ever was. Skips are still regarded as "Rubbish skips" and, if people spot something useful in them will say to themselves: "Oh well it will only end up as landfill!" and mostly, they are right. But, a broken fence, a rubbish skip with detonators in it? And a couple of kids? I fessed up on here about the ones I nicked, how many do you think were nicking detonators at my school back then? Perhaps you critics all went to the Angel school of innocence, but I would bet that the real innocents are few and far between.
One more thing I would like to know, where was that skip going when full? If you've never thrown a rock at a railway detonator then you never really knew how dangerous those bangers can be! Do they warn the people where the skip is bound of the dangers I wonder?

Lastly, look at the lad, one eye down and really, does he look evil? Of course not. I for one feel very sorry for him. A very high price to pay for a bit of mischief!
Does anyone remember the time when a survey was carried out to find out exactly how many of us were honest, or at least, believed they were honest? We see a lot lately about expenses, but how many of you have never fiddled a little bit of mileage or upped the meal claim by a few quid? Never "Borrowed" a bit of stationary from the office? The survey returned that an amazingly high percentage of us "Nick" a little, but do not consider it a crime. Perhaps something about "Casting the first stone" is more relevant today than it ever was. Skips are still regarded as "Rubbish skips" and, if people spot something useful in them will say to themselves: "Oh well it will only end up as landfill!" and mostly, they are right. But, a broken fence, a rubbish skip with detonators in it? And a couple of kids? I fessed up on here about the ones I nicked, how many do you think were nicking detonators at my school back then? Perhaps you critics all went to the Angel school of innocence, but I would bet that the real innocents are few and far between. One more thing I would like to know, where was that skip going when full? If you've never thrown a rock at a railway detonator then you never really knew how dangerous those bangers can be! Do they warn the people where the skip is bound of the dangers I wonder? Lastly, look at the lad, one eye down and really, does he look evil? Of course not. I for one feel very sorry for him. A very high price to pay for a bit of mischief! Devils Advocate

12:07am Fri 30 Nov 12

Aint it just the truth says...

Devils Advocate wrote:
Does anyone remember the time when a survey was carried out to find out exactly how many of us were honest, or at least, believed they were honest? We see a lot lately about expenses, but how many of you have never fiddled a little bit of mileage or upped the meal claim by a few quid? Never "Borrowed" a bit of stationary from the office? The survey returned that an amazingly high percentage of us "Nick" a little, but do not consider it a crime. Perhaps something about "Casting the first stone" is more relevant today than it ever was. Skips are still regarded as "Rubbish skips" and, if people spot something useful in them will say to themselves: "Oh well it will only end up as landfill!" and mostly, they are right. But, a broken fence, a rubbish skip with detonators in it? And a couple of kids? I fessed up on here about the ones I nicked, how many do you think were nicking detonators at my school back then? Perhaps you critics all went to the Angel school of innocence, but I would bet that the real innocents are few and far between. One more thing I would like to know, where was that skip going when full? If you've never thrown a rock at a railway detonator then you never really knew how dangerous those bangers can be! Do they warn the people where the skip is bound of the dangers I wonder? Lastly, look at the lad, one eye down and really, does he look evil? Of course not. I for one feel very sorry for him. A very high price to pay for a bit of mischief!
Fair enough.
[quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: Does anyone remember the time when a survey was carried out to find out exactly how many of us were honest, or at least, believed they were honest? We see a lot lately about expenses, but how many of you have never fiddled a little bit of mileage or upped the meal claim by a few quid? Never "Borrowed" a bit of stationary from the office? The survey returned that an amazingly high percentage of us "Nick" a little, but do not consider it a crime. Perhaps something about "Casting the first stone" is more relevant today than it ever was. Skips are still regarded as "Rubbish skips" and, if people spot something useful in them will say to themselves: "Oh well it will only end up as landfill!" and mostly, they are right. But, a broken fence, a rubbish skip with detonators in it? And a couple of kids? I fessed up on here about the ones I nicked, how many do you think were nicking detonators at my school back then? Perhaps you critics all went to the Angel school of innocence, but I would bet that the real innocents are few and far between. One more thing I would like to know, where was that skip going when full? If you've never thrown a rock at a railway detonator then you never really knew how dangerous those bangers can be! Do they warn the people where the skip is bound of the dangers I wonder? Lastly, look at the lad, one eye down and really, does he look evil? Of course not. I for one feel very sorry for him. A very high price to pay for a bit of mischief![/p][/quote]Fair enough. Aint it just the truth

8:57am Fri 30 Nov 12

J_blond says...

Think of it like this...

Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property.

Mother wins

Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident.

Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives.

Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court!
Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court! J_blond

12:01pm Fri 30 Nov 12

Devils Advocate says...

J_blond wrote:
Think of it like this...

Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property.

Mother wins

Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident.

Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives.

Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court!
Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open!

Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different?

Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity.

Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all.

Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist.
Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke.

You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents!
[quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court![/p][/quote]Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open! Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different? Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity. Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all. Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist. Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke. You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents! Devils Advocate

1:08pm Fri 30 Nov 12

J_blond says...

Devils Advocate wrote:
J_blond wrote: Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court!
Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open! Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different? Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity. Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all. Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist. Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke. You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents!
because insurance companies don't write the law - they write terms and conditions based on a legal precident, not a lawful one. All a lawyer would do in this case is confirm that the terms are fair.

and in terms of leaving dangerous 'explosives' in a skip, I think it was mentioned in coverages past that these detenators dod not need special handling.

Plus, if I have a bin on private property, I don't expect someone to tresspass and steal out of that bin. You know it's still classed as theft if you walk past a skip, and take something from it, even if it's on an open driveway?
[quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court![/p][/quote]Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open! Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different? Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity. Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all. Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist. Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke. You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents![/p][/quote]because insurance companies don't write the law - they write terms and conditions based on a legal precident, not a lawful one. All a lawyer would do in this case is confirm that the terms are fair. and in terms of leaving dangerous 'explosives' in a skip, I think it was mentioned in coverages past that these detenators dod not need special handling. Plus, if I have a bin on private property, I don't expect someone to tresspass and steal out of that bin. You know it's still classed as theft if you walk past a skip, and take something from it, even if it's on an open driveway? J_blond

3:46pm Fri 30 Nov 12

mick485 says...

If you leave a loaded shotgun in your shed/garage and a teenager breaks in, steals it then goes and shoots someone, are you in any way responsible? Apparently not according to some posters logic!
If you leave a loaded shotgun in your shed/garage and a teenager breaks in, steals it then goes and shoots someone, are you in any way responsible? Apparently not according to some posters logic! mick485

6:41pm Fri 30 Nov 12

Devils Advocate says...

J_blond wrote:
Devils Advocate wrote:
J_blond wrote: Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court!
Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open! Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different? Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity. Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all. Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist. Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke. You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents!
because insurance companies don't write the law - they write terms and conditions based on a legal precident, not a lawful one. All a lawyer would do in this case is confirm that the terms are fair.

and in terms of leaving dangerous 'explosives' in a skip, I think it was mentioned in coverages past that these detenators dod not need special handling.

Plus, if I have a bin on private property, I don't expect someone to tresspass and steal out of that bin. You know it's still classed as theft if you walk past a skip, and take something from it, even if it's on an open driveway?
I know insurance companies are not the law, merely a law unto themselves but, the point I am making is that, to the people who make the rules as to what you will or will not be paid out for will not pay out is you leave a house unoccupied and insecure. this also applied to the energy suppliers in the days of prepayment coin metering.

If you were ever a child that played with these detonators, you would know how little concussion was required to set them off. Also remember that, whilst being called "Detonators" the were, in fact, very very loud bang makers. The noise being loud enough to be heard above the noise and cacaphony of a live locomotive. Anyone who lived near the area where they were used would tell you just how loud they were. Theft from a bin? are you not aware of the teams of specialist collectors that roam your streets on collection day? If you are like most working people and put your rubbish on your driveway at night, look closely if you put metal or clothing out with it. Probably be gone by the morning. Is it theft to save that from the landfill? Looks a lot like custom and practice to me.
[quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Devils Advocate[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]J_blond[/bold] wrote: Think of it like this... Mother sues Network Rail because son was able to tresspass using a hole in the fence, and claims Network Rail should have maintained property better to stop son tresspassing, and stealing from private property. Mother wins Legal precident is set - now, if you fail to maintain your property, someone could come in, burgle you and if caught, reference this case. Judge would have to take this on board, and could let said thief off, based on past legal precident. Not maintaining your property against tresspass - leaving a door or window open. So it's open season for theives. Is she really that daft to believe that will happen? She'll be laughed out of court![/p][/quote]Strange you should think this, without thinking that exactly what you predict is exactly what would happen should you decide to insure your property against theft. In most insurances, you have to lock your downstairs windows if you are going out and leaving the house empty, never mind about leaving a window open! Now, if that is how the insurers view it, how can the law view it any different? Add to that, if you leave dangerous materials such as these detonators in the rubbish skip and kids find them and blow there heads off or people working at the tip lose their life when a whole box of explosives is detonated, you think that's OK. Obviously, money comes first to you, not humanity. Sadly, due to money grubbers like Lord McAlpine it now seems that compensation is now the get rich quick path for all. Then again, for far too many years corporate responsibility did not exist. Over the years, thousands of British workmen have been systematically killed by asbestos because, for over a hundred years, those firms knew it was a killer but kept it a close secret, even getting the doctors to lie about the cause of death, thereby using people as a part of the machinery that makes the rich richer, chucking the worn out parts (the workforce) on the dump when they broke. You would let the railway company off for what they have done? Look to your history before you talk about precedents![/p][/quote]because insurance companies don't write the law - they write terms and conditions based on a legal precident, not a lawful one. All a lawyer would do in this case is confirm that the terms are fair. and in terms of leaving dangerous 'explosives' in a skip, I think it was mentioned in coverages past that these detenators dod not need special handling. Plus, if I have a bin on private property, I don't expect someone to tresspass and steal out of that bin. You know it's still classed as theft if you walk past a skip, and take something from it, even if it's on an open driveway?[/p][/quote]I know insurance companies are not the law, merely a law unto themselves but, the point I am making is that, to the people who make the rules as to what you will or will not be paid out for will not pay out is you leave a house unoccupied and insecure. this also applied to the energy suppliers in the days of prepayment coin metering. If you were ever a child that played with these detonators, you would know how little concussion was required to set them off. Also remember that, whilst being called "Detonators" the were, in fact, very very loud bang makers. The noise being loud enough to be heard above the noise and cacaphony of a live locomotive. Anyone who lived near the area where they were used would tell you just how loud they were. Theft from a bin? are you not aware of the teams of specialist collectors that roam your streets on collection day? If you are like most working people and put your rubbish on your driveway at night, look closely if you put metal or clothing out with it. Probably be gone by the morning. Is it theft to save that from the landfill? Looks a lot like custom and practice to me. Devils Advocate

11:00pm Mon 3 Dec 12

Matty Bird says...

I'm so sorry to sound rude but the majority of people commenting on this are absolute bellends...... I go to the same school as him and yes although it is partly his fault he does not deserve the ordeal he has gone through! You people make me feel sick, you cretins- saying that he deserved it, just think before you post hateful comments. If this was your son/daughter you wouldn't take so kindly to people ridiculing them for what has happened! Harvey is a close friend of mine, and although he may appear to be happy on the outside i am sure inside he hasn't fully understood the impacted this event will have on his life as of yet. Anybody being little 'Keyboard Warriors' just think/realize how pathetic and useless your life must be to spend your time slagging off a young teenager ( just as good as going behind his back. ) Do me a favor and come and say all of this to me or him or any member of faculty at his school! Grow up! #Swag!!! bird.matthew23@googl
email.com why not email me your concerns instead of being spineless.... I LOVE YOU HARVEY!!!! Peace Matt.
I'm so sorry to sound rude but the majority of people commenting on this are absolute bellends...... I go to the same school as him and yes although it is partly his fault he does not deserve the ordeal he has gone through! You people make me feel sick, you cretins- saying that he deserved it, just think before you post hateful comments. If this was your son/daughter you wouldn't take so kindly to people ridiculing them for what has happened! Harvey is a close friend of mine, and although he may appear to be happy on the outside i am sure inside he hasn't fully understood the impacted this event will have on his life as of yet. Anybody being little 'Keyboard Warriors' just think/realize how pathetic and useless your life must be to spend your time slagging off a young teenager ( just as good as going behind his back. ) Do me a favor and come and say all of this to me or him or any member of faculty at his school! Grow up! #Swag!!! bird.matthew23@googl email.com why not email me your concerns instead of being spineless.... I LOVE YOU HARVEY!!!! Peace Matt. Matty Bird

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