Five Essex MPs defy Cameron and back referendum on Europe (From Southend Standard)

Kim Gandy wrote:
Listen you mealy-mouthed, spineless m0rons... we will NOT forget those of you who bottled out of this or voted against. You can run but you cannot hide. What you have shown is the utmost contempt for the British voting public. I was at the protest and which were not. As usual John Baron WAS listening to his constituents but I did not see hide nor hair of Francois. I wrote an open letter to Mark Francois last week but as usual he did NOT listen. We are going to be watching you VERY closely now on and now that you have shown by and large what you think of the voting public and their views and their online petitions, you will be watched even MORE closely. The public are becoming more acutely aware of what is going on and if local UKIP such as myself have anything to do with it, the people of Basildon will become better informed. UKIP has been leafleting throughout election periods and more importantly, OUTSIDE of elections. Unlike other parties, we keep going all year around because we are NOT smug,complacent hypocrites like the liblabcon. One of the reasons the British electorate have even brought this to the notice of parliament in the first place is because of the efforts of local UKIP who spend hours of their own time and their own money on making people aware of what is going on. The fact that the local papers don't like reporting it is by the by. This makes us all the MORE determined to get out there and inform people as we know the Tory press are not going to help. UKIP is now the fourth largest party and growing in size and stature and whether you like it or not we are starting to represent a serious challenge to the corrupt Consocialist Libservatives. I don't expect my post will stay up very long as we don't do democracy round here either.

Kim Gandy wrote:
No answer I see Obviously you don't have any better ideas. Or perhaps you like the idea of paying fifty million pounds a DAY to a regime that controls our borders, makes 50 percent of our laws, countless daft directives and actually ROBS us of trade (remember Bombardier). Are YOU any better off for being under this regime that has also robbed us of our fishing grounds and dictates our farming quotas and even persecutes market traders for selling fruit by pounds and ounces. Then there's "Arc Manche". Heard of that? Look it up. Oh and while you're at it find out what they want to do to war memorials. Educate yourself before coming on here and making inane comments.

sash bore buoy wrote:
it's goodbye dave, hello nigel

Aint it just the truth wrote:
Respect for those who voted for a referendum, disgust for those who followed the party line.
::
In 76 we agreed to join the Common Market because a European common market is a very good idea, but we have never been given any choice about the massive devolution of power that has happened since. Shame on those MPs who denied us that choice yesterday.
::
Becky Harris would do well to learn from the longest standing and most respected MP Castle Point has ever had - Sir Bernard Braine - who was not scared of opposing his party if that was what his constituents wanted. At this rate Harris will be gone next election so her toadying up to Cameron will count for absolutely nothing except that she has denied us our democratic right to have a say on the EU. Shame on you Harris.

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote: Respect for those who voted for a referendum, disgust for those who followed the party line. :: In 76 we agreed to join the Common Market because a European common market is a very good idea, but we have never been given any choice about the massive devolution of power that has happened since. Shame on those MPs who denied us that choice yesterday. :: Becky Harris would do well to learn from the longest standing and most respected MP Castle Point has ever had - Sir Bernard Braine - who was not scared of opposing his party if that was what his constituents wanted. At this rate Harris will be gone next election so her toadying up to Cameron will count for absolutely nothing except that she has denied us our democratic right to have a say on the EU. Shame on you Harris.

what percentage of liberal/labour mps defied the whip? so you would choose a candidate from a party who've shown even more flagrant disregard for democracy?

sash bore buoy wrote:
i quote "At this rate Harris will be gone next election" just a hollow threat to vote for someone else?

sash bore buoy wrote:
you're turning into a troll in your old age untruth. calm down and have a complan

upset wrote:
Mrs Harris, the voters will remember this come the next election.
You were elected by the people, this can be reversed when you ask for their support in the future.

Boris wrote:
What fun to see the extreme right wingers arguing with each other.

sash bore buoy wrote:
is your surname yeltsin comrade?

Ian P wrote:
When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

you keep saying "we" in '76 untruth. you're the only one here old enough to have voted on it!

upset wrote:
Mrs Harris, the voters will remember this come the next election. You were elected by the people, this can be reversed when you ask for their support in the future.

Aint it just the truth wrote:

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

you keep saying "we" in '76 untruth. you're the only one here old enough to have voted on it!

I don't believe you Sad Boring Boy, anyone with an attitude like yours has to be at least 80.

Aint it just the truth wrote:

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

you keep saying "we" in '76 untruth. you're the only one here old enough to have voted on it!

I don't believe you Sad Boring Boy, anyone with an attitude like yours has to be at least 80.

Aint it just the truth wrote:

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

you keep saying "we" in '76 untruth. you're the only one here old enough to have voted on it!

I don't believe you Sad Boring Boy, anyone with an attitude like yours has to be at least 80.

policritician wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote:

Ian P wrote: When we voted in the 70's whether to join the EU, (common market as it was known in those days), or not we voted to join a trading community. We did not vote to join a European Mega-State. Unfortunately, this is what has been allowed to happen by previous Governments. Like it or not Europe is our biggest trading partner and if we left the EU tomorrow most, if not all, of that trade would vanish over night and we would be in a far bigger financial mess than we are today. It is my opinion that had the vote in the house been about the UK pulling back from Europe's Mega-State, rather than leaving, voting by the MP's would have been very different.

Ok, so if we pulled out of Europe they would stop selling their cars etc in the UK? The single market is what it is called, yet over 50% of our exports go outside the EU Countries, and with the state of a lot of Euro countries, such as Greece, would you want to export to them although they cannot afford to pay? For the younger part of society, we did trade with European Countries and the rest of the world before the dreadful European Union and did pretty well, why not now?

Too true, the usual line that EU die-hards trot out that 40% of our export trade would disappear overnight is self evidently a falacy. Besides, in 76 we agreed to be part of a European common market because that makes good sense, it's the devolution of power that rankles. If our politicians had a bit more common sense we'd be more like the Swiss who are part of the free trade area but have not agreed to EU federalism. Good for them.

you keep saying "we" in '76 untruth. you're the only one here old enough to have voted on it!

I don't believe you Sad Boring Boy, anyone with an attitude like yours has to be at least 80.

I don't know who you are referring to, but you sound like a pompous ****!

policritician wrote:
I do not care what is going on in your head "aint it just the truth" but there is no need to insult other posters just because you disagree with them. Grow up and learn how to debate in a respectable fashion.

Bwanna wrote:

sash bore buoy wrote:
is your surname yeltsin comrade?

I was hoping for Johnson LOL

RobWalker wrote:

Boris wrote:
What fun to see the extreme right wingers arguing with each other.

Boris, I'm amused by the term "extreme right wingers". These sorts of terms were used to patronize those who dared disagree entering the ERM or joining the single currency. Those people were denounced by the prevailing establishment and yet were proven to be 100% correct in what they forecast.
What strikes me is how much agreement there is in the Conservative Party these days over Europe. Immediate pragmatism may be winning the day in the current economic circumstances, but I think it is obvious what virtually all Conservative party members and Conservative MPs actually think.
These views are not out of step with what most people think. What annoys me is the Labour Party sides with the establishment view rather than espousing what a lot of their own supporters believe to be true.

Boris wrote:

RobWalker wrote:

Boris wrote: What fun to see the extreme right wingers arguing with each other.

Boris, I'm amused by the term "extreme right wingers". These sorts of terms were used to patronize those who dared disagree entering the ERM or joining the single currency. Those people were denounced by the prevailing establishment and yet were proven to be 100% correct in what they forecast. What strikes me is how much agreement there is in the Conservative Party these days over Europe. Immediate pragmatism may be winning the day in the current economic circumstances, but I think it is obvious what virtually all Conservative party members and Conservative MPs actually think. These views are not out of step with what most people think. What annoys me is the Labour Party sides with the establishment view rather than espousing what a lot of their own supporters believe to be true.

Decent "one nation" Tories, such as Harold Macmillan or - in our day - Kenneth Clarke, are the mainstream right. If they are now outnumbered by extremists like Priti Patel, who wants to bring back the death penalty for example, then it means the lunatics are taking over the asylum.

policritician wrote:
I understand that Mr.Dodderidge is a Government whip-nuff said. I emailed Mr.Amess before the debate demanding he vote in favour of a referendum, and yesterday received a reply and a copy of Hansard. His view is, and I quote," I think we should trade our goods and services, have strong educational and cultural links but go no further" He told me that he was a signatory to an amendment which the speaker chose not to select, so abstained. In my reply I said this was like throwing his rattle out of the pram because he did not get his own way. For me it was UKIP at the last election, and it will be next time.

policritician wrote:
I understand that Mr.Dodderidge is a Government whip-nuff said. I emailed Mr.Amess before the debate demanding he vote in favour of a referendum, and yesterday received a reply and a copy of Hansard. His view is, and I quote," I think we should trade our goods and services, have strong educational and cultural links but go no further" He told me that he was a signatory to an amendment which the speaker chose not to select, so abstained. In my reply I said this was like throwing his rattle out of the pram because he did not get his own way. For me it was UKIP at the last election, and it will be next time.

policritician wrote:
OK A I J T T, what action did you take? Nothing I bet. Just moan and criticise others who have the bottle to at least let our MP's know our feelings. And yes "demanded".

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote: OK A I J T T, what action did you take? Nothing I bet. Just moan and criticise others who have the bottle to at least let our MP's know our feelings. And yes "demanded".

Blimey, Sad Boring Boy posted a sensible comment that I actually agree with but then he couldn't help himself and reverted to his usual baseless personal insults. Typical. :: Actually policritician I have done more than my fair share of voluntary civic duty (have you?) but I wouldn't dream of "demanding" action from my MP cos that not the way to get what you want and not the way our system works. As you are obviously an old g1t you should know that. :: I also see you are taking after SBB and throwing unjustified personal insults based on nothing but assumption. As they say, resorting to personal insults usually means you have lost the argument. But say what you want cos I'm off, I have better things to do with my time.

policritician wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote:

policritician wrote: OK A I J T T, what action did you take? Nothing I bet. Just moan and criticise others who have the bottle to at least let our MP's know our feelings. And yes "demanded".

Blimey, Sad Boring Boy posted a sensible comment that I actually agree with but then he couldn't help himself and reverted to his usual baseless personal insults. Typical. :: Actually policritician I have done more than my fair share of voluntary civic duty (have you?) but I wouldn't dream of "demanding" action from my MP cos that not the way to get what you want and not the way our system works. As you are obviously an old g1t you should know that. :: I also see you are taking after SBB and throwing unjustified personal insults based on nothing but assumption. As they say, resorting to personal insults usually means you have lost the argument. But say what you want cos I'm off, I have better things to do with my time.

Good, do something useful instead of calling other posters insulting names.

Aint it just the truth wrote:
policritician I took early retirement so I can spend more time with my grandchildren and my little boat but my brain and body are far from withered.
::
Andycal if you had a brain you'd know there has been a huge groundswell of opinion against EU membership - latest surveys show a clear majority want out or want our terms renegotiated, mostly because there has been too much power devolved to Europe. You should get out more.

sash bore buoy wrote:

Aint it just the truth wrote: policritician I took early retirement so I can spend more time with my grandchildren and my little boat but my brain and body are far from withered. :: Andycal if you had a brain you'd know there has been a huge groundswell of opinion against EU membership - latest surveys show a clear majority want out or want our terms renegotiated, mostly because there has been too much power devolved to Europe. You should get out more.

untruth, you are correct. basic understanding of statistics means if your sample is big enough you don't have to ask every single adult in the uk their opinion to get a fair extrapolation (assumption if you will). this is my last post on this website...the cannabis smokers and the left wingers can sleep easy. good luck.

RobWalker wrote:

Boris wrote:

RobWalker wrote:

Boris wrote: What fun to see the extreme right wingers arguing with each other.

Boris, I'm amused by the term "extreme right wingers". These sorts of terms were used to patronize those who dared disagree entering the ERM or joining the single currency. Those people were denounced by the prevailing establishment and yet were proven to be 100% correct in what they forecast. What strikes me is how much agreement there is in the Conservative Party these days over Europe. Immediate pragmatism may be winning the day in the current economic circumstances, but I think it is obvious what virtually all Conservative party members and Conservative MPs actually think. These views are not out of step with what most people think. What annoys me is the Labour Party sides with the establishment view rather than espousing what a lot of their own supporters believe to be true.

Decent "one nation" Tories, such as Harold Macmillan or - in our day - Kenneth Clarke, are the mainstream right. If they are now outnumbered by extremists like Priti Patel, who wants to bring back the death penalty for example, then it means the lunatics are taking over the asylum.

I don't know what this obsession with labels is.
It is better to look at a situation issue by issue and stop eulogising and attacking individuals.

Bwanna wrote:
Everyone should have the right on whether we stay in or come out.It is effecting everyone not just the money people but employers and employees.It is also effecting the retired and disabled and trying to force disabled people onto the dole queue, when there aren't any jobs for the able bodied. This happened 20 odd years ago again under a Tory government, but whats makes this worse this time is that Lib dems, conned people into voting for them.Well one did, and they are putting this country in danger of going against what a lot of people died for between '39-'45!! WE MUST NOT LET GERMANY AND FRANCE DICTATE TO US WHAT RULES WE SHOULD RUN OUR COUNTRY ON!!