Crackdown on cannabis use in Shoebury (From Southend Standard)

What a load of cobblers, the police walk past groups of "students" in the high when the stench of drugs wafts around them and they dont even look, they have to trip over a pot smoker to take action ,

I wonder which of these young users will end up in a mental hospital.
http://www.mentalhea
lthcare.org.uk/canna
bis

Nebs,

According to hospital admission and NTA statistics, after adjusting for the number of regular users of each drug, you are six times more likely to experience mental health problems from alcohol use than from cannabis.

These are the FACTS. It seems you are just repeating alcohol lobby propaganda

And this is what happens in every town, up and down the country.

We've 'cracked down' on drugs before, and what happens? Use and supply goes UP.

In places like Amsterdam and Portugal where drugs are decriminalized, they have less cannabis users than we do here.

If we really want to protect the community we would legalize, tax and regulate. If it was sold in shops to over 18's only, then these kids wouldn't be smoking it on the estates, but since we gift the whole business of selling drugs to organised crime, we get these problems.

The only ID a dealer needs is a £10 note.

“We are certainly going to make cracking down on drug use in Ness Road a priority from now on.”

Why? There are more important crimes out there, drink driving, rape, burglary. Sop wasting our time and money on petty drug use.

i see the search engines have been working overtime. we have some special guests. the old £10 note id reverse scare tactic bs. btw peter reynolds got word to me...he says "the war's over...we lost...david "bog roll" nutt was wrong all along but soft strong and very, very long"

Nebs its propaganda that cannabis causes 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis'. If so, why does the home office allow GW pharma to grow tons of high grade cannabis in South England, as medicine? Its called sativex, and at 27% THC its strong. Basically liquid skunk for people who suffer from MS and so on. Funny how it doesnt mention 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis' on the list of side effects on the satviex bottle. Hmm i think some people are clouded by misinformation and propaganda, some people know the deal. simple :)

I think the law needs to be changed. Prohibition has allowed criminal gangs control over the cannabis market, gifting them money and power. It needs to be regulated by professionals working for the government. Legalization will ensure dealers slowly go out of business. Regulation would prevent contamination and would be age restricted preventing teenage use. Easier for kids to obtain cannabis than alcohol or cigarettes. FACT, as all a dealer needs to see is a £20 note. Also cannabis is medicine for many people, not simply a recreational drug. Its been known to help people suffering from a wide range of disparate diseases and pathological conditions, ranging from mood and anxiety disorders, movement disorders such as Parkinson’s and Huntington’s disease, neuropathic pain, multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury, to cancer, atherosclerosis, myocardial infarction, stroke, hypertension, glaucoma, obesitymetabolic syndrome, and osteoporosis, to name just a few. Legalization and regulation doesn't mean easily obtainable, it simply means safer access for adults who need it and want it, cannabis. An ancient plant, science has proven its therapeutic and medicinal value. Experts acknowledge its a much safer drug than alcohol or tobacco. Taxation, Legalization, Regulation but most importantly Education if you want to eliminate associated 'harms'.

I know enough people who have had their health and careers ruined by this rubbish to be sure that it turns normal people into wasters, losers and scum. Users who say that isn't so just won't see it, or just as likely can't see it because they are already part of the whole scummy underclass who are involved. Lock the idiots up, for their own good and everyone elses. It's amazing how people can turn their careers and lives around once they stop, provided there hasn't been too much health damage by that time. The arguments comparing drink and tobacco do not work either. They have their own problems, but that doesn't mean something else which ruins lives should be made legal too.

BIRLIS wrote:
I know enough people who have had their health and careers ruined by this rubbish to be sure that it turns normal people into wasters, losers and scum. Users who say that isn't so just won't see it, or just as likely can't see it because they are already part of the whole scummy underclass who are involved. Lock the idiots up, for their own good and everyone elses. It's amazing how people can turn their careers and lives around once they stop, provided there hasn't been too much health damage by that time. The arguments comparing drink and tobacco do not work either. They have their own problems, but that doesn't mean something else which ruins lives should be made legal too.

Excellent post..I speak from experience as someone very close to me got into smoking this stuff and it changed him to someone unrecognisable. Fortunately he received good support and advice and now no longer smokes it and his life is back on track. He suffered from panic attacks and severe depression while smoking it and believe me was singing it's praises saying he wasn't addicted etc. The difference in him is unbelievable since he has given up smoking it he has a purpose in life, feels he can now make plans for it and says he can now think straight. I agree smoking is bad for you as is alcohol but that although they have problems the problems caused by 'weed' far outweigh them. it can take over somone's life and those who are close to them.

BIRLIS wrote:
I know enough people who have had their health and careers ruined by this rubbish to be sure that it turns normal people into wasters, losers and scum. Users who say that isn't so just won't see it, or just as likely can't see it because they are already part of the whole scummy underclass who are involved. Lock the idiots up, for their own good and everyone elses. It's amazing how people can turn their careers and lives around once they stop, provided there hasn't been too much health damage by that time. The arguments comparing drink and tobacco do not work either. They have their own problems, but that doesn't mean something else which ruins lives should be made legal too.

Prohibition causes more harm than any drug, it allows dealers to control the market and has gifted them money and power, im sure your completely fine with that but im not. Legalization doesnt mean easily obtainable, it simply means safer access for adults. Regulation would ensure under aged kids find cannabis harder to obtain. As its easier for a kid to get cannabis than cigarettes or beer, as all a dealer needs to see is a £20 note. Obviously you dont know about the medicinal effects of cannabis. Our government must because they allowed GW pharma to grow high grade cannabis for medicine for people who suffer from MS and so on. If alcohol and tobacco were prohibited you would see a lot more criminal activity and destruction. Because those harmful drugs (3000 times more harmful than cannabis)are legal, people who suffer from alcohol addiction can be honest because jail time wouldn't be considered simply for getting drunk. If prohibition works so well, why do people in the UK smoke more cannabis than people in the Netherlands? Also the first age people start using cannabis in the UK is 16, in the Netherlands is 20. Their system of regulation ensures an understanding between HARD drugs and SOFT drugs. And as a result they got the lowest hard drug use in Europe. Some people can smoke cannabis some people cant, i accept that, just like i cant touch alcohol because it causes a negative reaction. Cannabis, the SAFEST recreational drug on Earth.

A quote about prohibition -
"If you look at the drug war from a purely economic point of view, the role of the government is to protect the drug cartel." - Milton Friedman, Economist, Nobel Prize winner

''I say legalize drugs because I want to see less drug abuse, not more. And I say legalize drugs because I want to see the criminals put out of business.''
~Edward Ellison, former Head of Scotland Yard's Antidrug Squad {Source: London's Daily Mail, March 10, 1998}

A quote about medicine -
"If Cannabis were unknown, and bio-prospectors were suddenly to find it in some remote mountain crevice, it's discovery would no doubt be hailed as a medical breakthrough. Scientists would praise it's potential for treating everything from pain to cancer and marvel at it's rich pharmacopoeia; many of whose chemicals mimic vital molecules in the human body." - The Economist

…marijuana is one of the safest, therapeutically active substances known to man.” – Judge Francis Young (DEA)

Saying it is a safe recreational drug is like saying that a knife is a safer weapon than a spear.

I accept it has medical benefits, as does cocaine, along with most other drugs. Let it be prescribed to those who need it by those who can then monitor and understand the results.

If I am a pasenger in an airoplane I would rather the pilot
smoked tobacco than marijuana,
perhaps you would be happy with either.

I would prefer the pilot to be sober, what kind of weird question is that?

BIRLIS wrote:
Saying it is a safe recreational drug is like saying that a knife is a safer weapon than a spear.

I accept it has medical benefits, as does cocaine, along with most other drugs. Let it be prescribed to those who need it by those who can then monitor and understand the results.

when i say cannabis is the safer recreational drug, im comparing its physical/mental harm and dependency to caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. As for saying coke is medicine, you cant compare cannabis and coke. its like comparing red wine to moon shine. I think you should do research on the medicinal side to cannabis, its surprisingly non toxic unlike opiates and cocaine based pharmaceutical drugs.
For get the stoners for a second, there are people out there who need cannabinoids in their system to live a normal life. THC, CBD, CBG, CBN, these chemicals are identical to ones we produce naturally in or bodies. The other only thing on earth apart from humans that produce cannabinoids is cannabis. Its the only 'natural' High ull find out side the human body. And since the CBD in cannabis has been known to fight cancer and shrink tumours, more research needs to be encouraged, not discouraged as it is now simply because its been demonized (in this country) for so long. I think a change in the law along with a change in attitude is needed.

There is a world of difference between controlled medical use, which I agree makes sense, and scummy drop-out users. The two have no link.

It's the kind of weird logic the anti cannabis hang 'em flog 'em brigade use. They know absolutely nothing about the sacred herb but they go ga ga as soon as they see the word "drug", just before they pour themselves a wee dram of one of the most dangerous recreational drugs known to man - alcohol. The simple truth is that cannabis is THE safest recreational drug in the world. Sure a tiny percentage of people have problems but this is mostly young teenagers and whilst the herb is illegal there is nothing we can do about that. Meanwhile go have a look at the stats, one in five hospital beds is taken up by someone who is there because of alcohol and a similar number are there because of tobacco. There are around 7 million regular cannabis users in the UK and if it was a tiny fraction as dangerous as some of the bigoted anti-cannabis brigade claim our hospitals should be packed to the rafters with cannabis casualties, but they are NOT.

BIRLIS wrote:
There is a world of difference between controlled medical use, which I agree makes sense, and scummy drop-out users. The two have no link.

7 million people are regular cannabis users, some may well be scummy youths but most are not. I notice the Police are only saying they want to stop the kids toking in the street, not stop them altogether because they know full well they cannot do that.

You'll find the fall-out in Rochford Hospital. Interestingly you assume I have no experience of the stuff. Like most people I have used it whilst growing up, and have watched the damaged it has done to those who don't stop after youthful experimentation. The biggest damage though is not to health, it is the wasted potential of those who just drop out and make it the focus of their life, losing whole days to sitting about smoking. We all know people like this. Complete waters. And, as I said, just because we have other legal but problematic substances (like booze) it doesn't mean we need another.

Sorry for the spelling errors. I was stoned. ;-)

It's the truth wrote:
It's the kind of weird logic the anti cannabis hang 'em flog 'em brigade use. They know absolutely nothing about the sacred herb but they go ga ga as soon as they see the word "drug", just before they pour themselves a wee dram of one of the most dangerous recreational drugs known to man - alcohol. The simple truth is that cannabis is THE safest recreational drug in the world. Sure a tiny percentage of people have problems but this is mostly young teenagers and whilst the herb is illegal there is nothing we can do about that. Meanwhile go have a look at the stats, one in five hospital beds is taken up by someone who is there because of alcohol and a similar number are there because of tobacco. There are around 7 million regular cannabis users in the UK and if it was a tiny fraction as dangerous as some of the bigoted anti-cannabis brigade claim our hospitals should be packed to the rafters with cannabis casualties, but they are NOT.

I completely agree, at least some one is making sense... ''scummy drop-out users''? LOL the perception that cannabis makes you a drop out loser was falsified when we found out American presidents, Britain's prime minister, Australia's prime minister, Ireland's prime minister, Norway's prime minister, Poland's prime minister...I could go on...LOL yea cannabis use makes people losers, so badly it might make you president or prime minister...Or it doesnt make a **** difference to the success people have. Some people can smoke weed, some cant. I cant drink alcohol because it causes negative reactions. Some can some cant. To say the people that can are losers is wrong.

BIRLIS wrote:
You'll find the fall-out in Rochford Hospital. Interestingly you assume I have no experience of the stuff. Like most people I have used it whilst growing up, and have watched the damaged it has done to those who don't stop after youthful experimentation. The biggest damage though is not to health, it is the wasted potential of those who just drop out and make it the focus of their life, losing whole days to sitting about smoking. We all know people like this. Complete waters. And, as I said, just because we have other legal but problematic substances (like booze) it doesn't mean we need another.

Dont you understand that the prohibition experiment indirectly allows drug use, and dealers control over the market. It doesnt work. Comparing the Netherlands to the UK once agian, less people use cannabis and hard drugs in the Netherlands compared to the UK. Even though cannabis is decriminalized. Its simply because they have a system of regulation as do Israel, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland ,Canada, America and more.

I'll bow out now. I've seen enough of these threads to know that our unwashed friends will fight their cause to the last. Still, at least for now it is still illegal, and nobody really listens to what druggies say. Least of all when it comes to changes in the law. Bye...

BIRLIS wrote:
Sorry for the spelling errors. I was stoned. ;-)

Funny, when i was a cannabis user because insomnia was controlling my life, I found when spelling i was more cautious of mistakes as i was more aware of the present moment, maybe it was just me..maybe its a misconception that cannabis prevents spelling correctly and so on.

BIRLIS wrote:
I'll bow out now. I've seen enough of these threads to know that our unwashed friends will fight their cause to the last. Still, at least for now it is still illegal, and nobody really listens to what druggies say. Least of all when it comes to changes in the law. Bye...

Misinformed people Resorting to rudeness is usually the sign of a failing argument. BTW with all the moral high ground you have, you better not be an alcohol or tobacco user.

Sorry, you are right. That sounded rude. Yes, I use alcohol legally. I also smoked in the past, and used drugs (illegally). No moral high ground here, just opinions formed over time by first and second hand experience. Again, I apologise for the insult (if indeed you are a user). I am off now, so have a good Sunday evening.

Ok, this is about the local constabulary telling residents they will enforce the law of the land, but it has turned into yet another argument for the legalisation of (currently) illegal substances.
It is a fact that the cannabis currently in general use & circulation is a lot stronger than was previously available. It is a fact that smoking cannabis is more carcinogenic than smoking tobacco. It is also a documented fact that psychosis is very increasingly reported by the medical establishment as a result of cannabis use. Yes, there are documented studies that show cannabis used medicinally can help with the symptoms of MS in some, likewise there are studies about it's effect on Parkinson's Disease, & extreme pain. The limited use of cannabis for medicinal purposes, where it is not smoked or of the type that is purchased on the streets is acknowledged to be beneficial to some - but remember this is used under medical supervision.
Also, as those who are attempting to justify the widespread use of cannabis due it's limited medicinal use, will know, cocaine & morphine (which is not much different from heroin) are also used for medicinial purposes, but again under strict supervision. However, I do not hear calls from "interested parties" to legalise these drugs because of their use in medicine.
Regardless of whether you believe cannabis to be a harmful or benign substance, the fact remains that it's use as a recreational drug is illegal.
The fact that the myth of the police being unable to fullfill their duties due to budget cuts rears it's head here, showing that the scare tactics used by the backroom staff, both civilian & warranted officers are working. But, can the residents of Ness Road tell me how many less officers are deployed to their area than before the story of possible cuts in officers was publicised, & show a direct connection between the cuts & the increase in public cannabis use. I personally believe that cannabis use & other illegal activities carried out in public are connected instead to the long term reduction in foot patrols throughout the borough - didn't a senior officer responsible for Southend once say he wanted to remove all beat officers, relying instead on officers driving along the main roads in patrol cars, & hasn't the incidence of street crime increased as a direct result of this tactic?

"I've seen enough of these threads to know that our unwashed friends will fight their cause to the last".
.
It's the anti brigade who are incapable of backing off. The pro cannabis posters readily admit the problems. If the anti cannabis brigade had a grain of inteligence they would also admit that there are some powerful arguments for decriminalisation, but they don't. Says a lot about them.
.
"Still, at least for now it is still illegal, and nobody really listens to what druggies say. Least of all when it comes to changes in the law".
.
Errr what about those famous tokers already mentioned, American presidents, Britain's prime minister, Australia's prime minister, Ireland's prime minister, Norway's prime minister, Poland's prime minister etc, not forgetting the experiment in decriminalisation in Brixton a few years ago which even the Police supported. Shame they didn't have the nous to realise what everyone else knew was inevitable, that tolerating usage in just one small area would attract users from the rest of London and spoil the experiment. One day ...

Bosniavet wrote:
Ok, this is about the local constabulary telling residents they will enforce the law of the land, but it has turned into yet another argument for the legalisation of (currently) illegal substances.
It is a fact that the cannabis currently in general use & circulation is a lot stronger than was previously available. It is a fact that smoking cannabis is more carcinogenic than smoking tobacco. It is also a documented fact that psychosis is very increasingly reported by the medical establishment as a result of cannabis use. Yes, there are documented studies that show cannabis used medicinally can help with the symptoms of MS in some, likewise there are studies about it's effect on Parkinson's Disease, & extreme pain. The limited use of cannabis for medicinal purposes, where it is not smoked or of the type that is purchased on the streets is acknowledged to be beneficial to some - but remember this is used under medical supervision.
Also, as those who are attempting to justify the widespread use of cannabis due it's limited medicinal use, will know, cocaine & morphine (which is not much different from heroin) are also used for medicinial purposes, but again under strict supervision. However, I do not hear calls from "interested parties" to legalise these drugs because of their use in medicine.
Regardless of whether you believe cannabis to be a harmful or benign substance, the fact remains that it's use as a recreational drug is illegal.
The fact that the myth of the police being unable to fullfill their duties due to budget cuts rears it's head here, showing that the scare tactics used by the backroom staff, both civilian & warranted officers are working. But, can the residents of Ness Road tell me how many less officers are deployed to their area than before the story of possible cuts in officers was publicised, & show a direct connection between the cuts & the increase in public cannabis use. I personally believe that cannabis use & other illegal activities carried out in public are connected instead to the long term reduction in foot patrols throughout the borough - didn't a senior officer responsible for Southend once say he wanted to remove all beat officers, relying instead on officers driving along the main roads in patrol cars, & hasn't the incidence of street crime increased as a direct result of this tactic?

Cannabis is more carcinogenic than cigarettes? Well that proves how misinformed you are.

In 2006, Hashibe, Morgenstern, Cui, Tashkin, et al. presented the results from a study involving 2,240 subjects that showed non-tobacco users who smoked marijuana did not exhibit an increased incidence of lung cancer or head-and-neck malignancies. These results were supported even among very long-term, very heavy users of marijuana. Tashkin, a pulmonologist who has studied cannabis for 30 years, commenting in news reports in the lay media on the results of the study he co-authored, suggested, "It's possible that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) in cannabis smoke may encourage apoptosis, or programmed cell death, causing cells to die off before they have a chance to undergo malignant transformation". He summarized the results found by his study, saying "We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between cannabis use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use. What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect."

Do some non biased research please

focusonpeace wrote:

BIRLIS wrote:
I'll bow out now. I've seen enough of these threads to know that our unwashed friends will fight their cause to the last. Still, at least for now it is still illegal, and nobody really listens to what druggies say. Least of all when it comes to changes in the law. Bye...

Misinformed people Resorting to rudeness is usually the sign of a failing argument. BTW with all the moral high ground you have, you better not be an alcohol or tobacco user.

Resorting to rudeness is usually the sign of a failing argument. Yes, I agree. You must have missed this thread....
http://www.echo-news
.co.uk/news/local_ne
ws/9715320.Community
_tip_off_leads_to_dr
ug_den_on_Canvey/

It's the truth wrote:
It's the kind of weird logic the anti cannabis hang 'em flog 'em brigade use. They know absolutely nothing about the sacred herb but they go ga ga as soon as they see the word "drug", just before they pour themselves a wee dram of one of the most dangerous recreational drugs known to man - alcohol. The simple truth is that cannabis is THE safest recreational drug in the world. Sure a tiny percentage of people have problems but this is mostly young teenagers and whilst the herb is illegal there is nothing we can do about that. Meanwhile go have a look at the stats, one in five hospital beds is taken up by someone who is there because of alcohol and a similar number are there because of tobacco. There are around 7 million regular cannabis users in the UK and if it was a tiny fraction as dangerous as some of the bigoted anti-cannabis brigade claim our hospitals should be packed to the rafters with cannabis casualties, but they are NOT.

oh dear oh dear oh dear. what's up - got to be your shortest tenure yet?

let's all worship the cannabis plant.

question...how do you spot a cannabis user? answer...they use the word "bigot" in every other sentence - oh and they smell....and ain't that just the truth

I think certain people need to grow up, this is 2012 guys! Not the 1930's, you dont have to believe the facts on cannabis from a scientific stand point as opposed to a political one. I do find it quite amusing, Dislike the term 'brain-washed', but it seems many people's 'opinions' are heavily influenced by government and media based misinformation and lies. I think certain people need educating on the REAL reasons why cannabis is illegal. Worship a plant you say? Well many lives have been saved by that specific plant, i would prefer people respect it than worship it, as worshipping implies some sort of religious activity.

focusonpeace wrote:
I think certain people need to grow up, this is 2012 guys! Not the 1930's, you dont have to believe the facts on cannabis from a scientific stand point as opposed to a political one. I do find it quite amusing, Dislike the term 'brain-washed', but it seems many people's 'opinions' are heavily influenced by government and media based misinformation and lies. I think certain people need educating on the REAL reasons why cannabis is illegal. Worship a plant you say? Well many lives have been saved by that specific plant, i would prefer people respect it than worship it, as worshipping implies some sort of religious activity.

you are completely in hock to this herb. the way the pros vehemently defend this drug it cannot be merely recreational.

i'll wager more lives have been screwed up by this plant than saved by it and ain't that just the truth....

asbo foundation wrote:
i'll wager more lives have been screwed up by this plant than saved by it and ain't that just the truth....

No thats not the truth, the amount of positive anecdotal evidence is staggering if you wanted to research and investigate. Which you dont because your in denial.. The amount of negative anecdotal gets blown out of proportion by our media. Why do they constantly dismiss positive anecdotal evidence?
Because negative is what sells tabloids. You keep saying the word 'truth'. I dont think your brain can comprehend the truth as it is clouded by misinformation and lies. Unable to accept the reality of the situation because you dont want your views turned upside down.
If you want to talk about the truth we can, but im not going to have a pathetic online argument with someone who is seriously misinformed about cannabis. Do your research, biased no doubt, come back and we will arrange a debate. But for now im finding it hard to control my laughter as your posts are pure comedy. Stoners smell LOL what are you like 5 years old? Is that what your resort to LOL.

they're meant to be comic you buffoon. as i have commented on numerous cannabis threads...one of the side effects of weed is erosion of irony of the addict. denial is not just a river in egypt.

so being monged out saves people's lives...righto. what have they been saved from and were they worth saving in the first place?

Whats wrong with you, being monged is the side effect. As many strong medication has side effects, GW Pharma describe it as 'euphoric mood' BTW the CBD in cannabis is non psychotropic so nah, you dont need to get high in order to stay healthy. THC, which does get you high also has medicinal value an anti epileptic properties. But CBD has many medicinal properties, Dont you know about CBD? What about cannabis oils, that doesnt get you high. Yet ANECDOTAL evidence suggests cannabis oil can cure skin cancer. I dont care if you dont want to listen and resort to your comedy, thats fine your entitled to your opinion but opinions are not FACTS. no offence pal but get educated.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=0psJhQHk_
GI

focusonpeace wrote:
Whats wrong with you, being monged is the side effect. As many strong medication has side effects, GW Pharma describe it as 'euphoric mood' BTW the CBD in cannabis is non psychotropic so nah, you dont need to get high in order to stay healthy. THC, which does get you high also has medicinal value an anti epileptic properties. But CBD has many medicinal properties, Dont you know about CBD? What about cannabis oils, that doesnt get you high. Yet ANECDOTAL evidence suggests cannabis oil can cure skin cancer. I dont care if you dont want to listen and resort to your comedy, thats fine your entitled to your opinion but opinions are not FACTS. no offence pal but get educated.

if it's anecdotal i'm sure that's good enough for you. ok i'll let you have your cannabis oils if that makes you happy. the rest stays illegal.

Focusonpeace I wouldn't bother wasting your time on Asbo, Nebs and Last Poster etc. They are not normal intelligent human beings, all they ever do is insult cannabis users and trot out the same old anti cannabis propaganda they read in The Sun thirty years ago. If they had an ounce of intelligence between them they would admit that there are indeed some powerful arguments for legalising cannabis, but they don't. They are incapable of reassessing their views in the light of new information which means they are probably suffering from dementia. Best to just leave them to rot in their respective care homes.

The anecdotal is backed up by non biased science. :)
On a serious note, I think you should do some research on medicinal cannabis. They say cannabis is addictive, I think learning and educating yourself is more addictive especially when passion is involved. Simply because I know some one with MS, and when they dont use cannabis they can barely walk and in clutches and wheelchairs, when they medicate on cannabis they begin functioning normally. Science has backed up his anecdotal claims as the CBD in cannabis is anti-spasmodic..Im not asking to to agree with what i say, im simply asking you to do some non biased research when you'v got an hour spare, without resorting to childishness.

It's the truth wrote:
Focusonpeace I wouldn't bother wasting your time on Asbo, Nebs and Last Poster etc. They are not normal intelligent human beings, all they ever do is insult cannabis users and trot out the same old anti cannabis propaganda they read in The Sun thirty years ago. If they had an ounce of intelligence between them they would admit that there are indeed some powerful arguments for legalising cannabis, but they don't. They are incapable of reassessing their views in the light of new information which means they are probably suffering from dementia. Best to just leave them to rot in their respective care homes.

Your right, in fact now you say it i know many non cannabis smokers and people who have never been in contact with cannabis, yet they understand prohibition is far more dangerous than the drug itself.
They know the truth, yet they are not stoners. (not any more or ever have been) Most non cannabis smokers i know, are more interested in why the government allow it to be grown as medicine and then say 'there is no medicinal value in cannabis'.. i think this obvious lie caused them to research and investigate purely from a neutral viewpoint.

It's the truth wrote:
Focusonpeace I wouldn't bother wasting your time on Asbo, Nebs and Last Poster etc. They are not normal intelligent human beings, all they ever do is insult cannabis users and trot out the same old anti cannabis propaganda they read in The Sun thirty years ago. If they had an ounce of intelligence between them they would admit that there are indeed some powerful arguments for legalising cannabis, but they don't. They are incapable of reassessing their views in the light of new information which means they are probably suffering from dementia. Best to just leave them to rot in their respective care homes.

starting from a position of illegality there are no powerful reasons to legalise cannabis. i return to the point of your vehement defence of weed as being completely in hock the dirty joint. bring on the crack down.

there are 60,000 MS sufferers and "7mio" pot heads. i'll let you do the maths on that one.

It's the truth wrote:
Focusonpeace I wouldn't bother wasting your time on Asbo, Nebs and Last Poster etc. They are not normal intelligent human beings, all they ever do is insult cannabis users and trot out the same old anti cannabis propaganda they read in The Sun thirty years ago. If they had an ounce of intelligence between them they would admit that there are indeed some powerful arguments for legalising cannabis, but they don't. They are incapable of reassessing their views in the light of new information which means they are probably suffering from dementia. Best to just leave them to rot in their respective care homes.

You, sir, are a liar.

http://www.echo-news

.co.uk/news/local_ne

ws/9715320.Community

_tip_off_leads_to_dr

ug_den_on_Canvey/

It is you, formerly known as aint it just the truth, who insults virtually every time you post. You have done it again here.

Scared of the truth? Or simply oblivious? I guess ignorance is bliss. The unfortunate have to deal with the reality while the misinformed live in a bubble clouded by propaganda. Do research ... Scared of what you may find? Be not afraid, simply because in our life time the truth on cannabis will be universally known. Patience is a virtue. ''Funny how when you feed people the truth, you never know how they are going to react''

Everything you ingest ruins your life (apparently).
Baked beans are my weakness they play havoc with me.
But I love them so much.

lol. scared of being clean eh. your entire existence revolves around the dirty joint. try living without it...i give you 8 hours...tops.

What made you think i smoke cannabis? I used to when suffering from insomnia few years back...for about 3 months until i could sleep normally again, the only drug i take now is caffeine.

give me 8 hours?, i haven't smoked for years :)

there you go. a sense of humour re-emerges. sorry but i'm sceptical. witness the rubbish that someone who calls himself "the truth" types.

asbo foundation wrote:
there you go. a sense of humour re-emerges. sorry but i'm sceptical. witness the rubbish that someone who calls himself "the truth" types.

I was sceptical as well, back when i thought cannabis was for hippies. Lucky im not you otherwise i would still be misinformed

One patient of ours had Parkinson's Disease, one of his medications gave side effects that could be eased by smoking tabacco, however that doesn't suddenly mean that tabacco is a wonder drug & we should be promoting it's benefits.
Current research points toward more harm than good from cannabis use in the population as a whole. As I have said, there are some conditions for which cannabis can do good, but this can be said of a number of drugs. For instance, are you aware of the medicinal uses of cocaine? It is in use in this country, yet nobody suggests we should legalise it for public recreational use.
Thanks for the links, & studies, it seems you can find anything on the 'net, for instance 9/11 was a plot by the US Government & big business; the moon landings never happened; Harold Wilson was a KGB sleeper agent, the list goes on.....

Simply put, prohibition is not the answer. How long have they been doing this prohibition experiment? Quite a while and drug use hasn't gone down. The war on drugs, from an economic point of view, is to protect the drug cartels. Allowing them control over the market, gifting them money and power. Sure a a few get thrown in jail, a few die from the violence in this drug gang culture prohibition has allowed, yet all that doesn't seem to work, and doesn't stop people buying drugs and selling drugs. Prohibition simply causes more harm than cannabis ever could, but the law wont change.

''doing the same experiment over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity'' Albert Einstein

If the Netherlands, Israel, Canada, 16 states in America, Switzerland, Portugal and so on can introduce a system of regulation, then why cant the UK? Regulation doesn't mean easily obtainable, it means safer access for people who need it or want it. If they tax it, that ensures all the money dealers made and more returns to our economy, new jobs would appear. Cannabis dealers would slowly go out of business as they did in Holland, and the market would be controlled by professionals. Holland has the lowest hard drug use in Europe. Regulation will make it harder for kids to obtain cannabis, I know the argument is 'well you see shops selling booze/cigarettes to kids, why not cannabis?' But the truth is its easier for kids to obtain cannabis than alcohol/tobacco in the UK. Dont be fooled by thinking if legalized it would be in off-licences like booze/cigarettes. More of a professional secure environment with informed retailers like a dispensary. All a dealer needs to see from a kid is money, but in a dispensary adults aren't allowed in without ID. The war on drugs has failed. It cannot be won. Instead of throwing users in jail, ripping them apart from their friends and family, how about treating it as more of a health issue, than a criminal one.

''I say legalize drugs because I want to see less drug abuse, not more. And I say legalize drugs because I want to see the criminals put out of business.''
~Edward Ellison, former Head of Scotland Yard's Antidrug Squad {Source: London's Daily Mail, March 10, 1998}

"Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control mans' appetite through legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not even crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our Government was founded"
~President Abraham Lincoln (December 1840)


"The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
~Albert Einstein "My First Impression of the U.S.A.", 1921

Nebs ... "You, sir, are a liar". Why? I didn't say I don't insult you too, in fact I have said quite clearly that I have nothing but contempt for you and the rest of the hang 'em flog 'em brigade. Unlike you I would never comment on things I know nothing about.
.
Bosniavet how can you compare cocaine with cannabis? Cocaine is a far more powerful and destructive drug that can kill you, unlike cannabis. This just shows how little you know about the subject. The Govts independent Drug Advisory Committee published a table of drugs rated by risk. You should have a look at it, it's honest and about right.
.
"it seems you can find anything on the 'net, for instance 9/11 was a plot by the US Government & big business; the moon landings never happened; Harold Wilson was a KGB sleeper agent, the list goes on.....” and next on the list are all the grossly biased anti cannabis websites and reports sponsored by religious and political organisations.

thats the best thing about comments in local rags. everyone knows someone whos life was ruined by cannabis.

So let me ask you this. If cannabis is soooooo bad how come I started smoking before I got my first job. I have since not spent a single day unemployed. Infact I have two jobs to make ends meet since my wife lost hers in this recession. How?
So if I can work hard, pay my taxes, bring up two lovely children who are now at university why on earth should I be treated like a criminal for choosing cannabis over alcohol. Please please explain how I am not a useful member of society?
discuss

s1nnah wrote:
thats the best thing about comments in local rags. everyone knows someone whos life was ruined by cannabis.

So let me ask you this. If cannabis is soooooo bad how come I started smoking before I got my first job. I have since not spent a single day unemployed. Infact I have two jobs to make ends meet since my wife lost hers in this recession. How?
So if I can work hard, pay my taxes, bring up two lovely children who are now at university why on earth should I be treated like a criminal for choosing cannabis over alcohol. Please please explain how I am not a useful member of society?
discuss

but you are not local

s1nnah wrote:
thats the best thing about comments in local rags. everyone knows someone whos life was ruined by cannabis.

So let me ask you this. If cannabis is soooooo bad how come I started smoking before I got my first job. I have since not spent a single day unemployed. Infact I have two jobs to make ends meet since my wife lost hers in this recession. How?
So if I can work hard, pay my taxes, bring up two lovely children who are now at university why on earth should I be treated like a criminal for choosing cannabis over alcohol. Please please explain how I am not a useful member of society?
discuss

You are one of the fortunate ones who is able to smoke cannabis without it having the devestating effects it has on so many other peoples lives.
I suppose the same could be said of alcohol...many people are able to end enjoy drinking socially and doing so does not effect their everyday life. For others it becomes a problem.
Please do not dismiss those stories from the people like myself who has seem someone they are close to have their life fall to pieces because of cannabis. he would have been unable to attend an interview and string a sentence together while smoking it let alone hold a job down and he is an intelligent young man. Mine and his story is very real and he is far from alone.
I don't think anyone is saying you are not a useful member of society, far from it but not everyone has the same story to tell.

Excuse the typos :-) and just to clarify since he has given up smoking it he now holds down a job and enjoys it and is able interact again socially. Just two of the things that he was not capable of doing before.

Just a thought....

Quick quote from Skylonrow

'We've 'cracked down' on drugs before, and what happens? Use and supply goes UP.

In places like Amsterdam and Portugal where drugs are decriminalized, they have less cannabis users than we do here.'

If the above is true, then perhaps some people simply prefer the buzz of doing something taboo/illegal rather than the smoking of cannabis in itself. Would they then find something else illegal to do in place of this?

As I've said on a previous thread, I'm a cigarette smoker and like a few pints in the pub a couple of evenings a week after work so I'm not really in a position to take the moral high ground on clean living. Personally I can't stand the smell of cannabis although if the majority of the population would like it legalised, then surely we have to consider this - after all, isn't that what democracy is about?

if this crackdown against tokers is anything like the intermittent crackdowns the police have against motorists using phones while driving, we might hear of a few slaps on the wrist for a couple or three stoner hoodies then it'll all just quietly fade away with little, if no real effect on the frequency of occurence....

I think the police are more annoyed by the people who complain about weed use than the users, they know every kid smoking weed would be taking up a cell for the night if they were drinking, violence & criminal damage would rise and there would be smashed glass everywhere by morning. Most police only act because they have to, i think most smokers could tell you of at many occasions where the police have turned a blind eye, i could tell of plenty

Me too Lord Spliffy. It actually amazes me that there are still people like this as the sacred herb is everywhere. I've shared a spliff with Councillors, professionals, business leaders, even worked in a North London practice where a bag of weed was kept in the fridge for staff use.
.
Here's a thought for the day for the hang ‘em flog ‘em anti-cannabis brigade … if this was about whether alcohol should be legal I am sure you lot would be arguing vigourously in favour of legalisation … but how on earth could you have a proper understanding of all the issues involved if you’d never had a pint, never been in a pub, never mixed with drinkers, and hadn’t followed the scientific debate for years? That would be like me procrastinating on the dangers of Peruvian knitting! So what on earth makes any of you lot think your opinions on cannabis have any value whatsoever?! I call that stupidity.

http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/29 lets get the 100000 we need

I would, puff.... make a valid, puff....point or two, puff.....But I can't, puff.... be bothered, Puff...

I guess it boils down to wether you like a puff or you NEED a puff of weed every day.

That's the difference. Could the pro-puff brigade honestly say they could live without the stuff tomorrow?

Exactly what is the 'problem' that the police and residents are talking about?? Some kids on a street corner smoking a spliff and having a laugh. What is the 'problem', what harm are they doing? I see the word problem mentioned as the cuase of this concern by residents but I can't for the life of me work out what the 'problem' is. Are they mugging old ladies, fighting, smashing cars, defacing public property, harassing passers by, assaulting people, pushing hard drugs, stamping on kittens - please explain what the 'problem' is that is causing so much consternation and cost to the public purse??????

Bonky Badger wrote:
I guess it boils down to wether you like a puff or you NEED a puff of weed every day.

That's the difference. Could the pro-puff brigade honestly say they could live without the stuff tomorrow?

Im pro cannabis and i havent needed to smoke in years, luckily i dont suffer from insomnia any more. But people who still suffer from conditions like MS, epilepsy, chron's disease and more, they NEED cannabis, its not because they are dependant on the high, but the effect it has on their body. It helps them function normally, like i said in my previous posts, some people want it, like some people want a coffee or a beer. And some people NEED it, because no matter what the misinformed say, cannabis IS medicinal. Its been scientifically proven.

watchfulk wrote:

s1nnah wrote:
thats the best thing about comments in local rags. everyone knows someone whos life was ruined by cannabis.

So let me ask you this. If cannabis is soooooo bad how come I started smoking before I got my first job. I have since not spent a single day unemployed. Infact I have two jobs to make ends meet since my wife lost hers in this recession. How?
So if I can work hard, pay my taxes, bring up two lovely children who are now at university why on earth should I be treated like a criminal for choosing cannabis over alcohol. Please please explain how I am not a useful member of society?
discuss

You are one of the fortunate ones who is able to smoke cannabis without it having the devestating effects it has on so many other peoples lives.
I suppose the same could be said of alcohol...many people are able to end enjoy drinking socially and doing so does not effect their everyday life. For others it becomes a problem.
Please do not dismiss those stories from the people like myself who has seem someone they are close to have their life fall to pieces because of cannabis. he would have been unable to attend an interview and string a sentence together while smoking it let alone hold a job down and he is an intelligent young man. Mine and his story is very real and he is far from alone.
I don't think anyone is saying you are not a useful member of society, far from it but not everyone has the same story to tell.

Accept the fact that cannabis effects people in different ways. MANY people have nothing but positive out comes with cannabis. SOME people dont, let me ask you this, if cannabis is so destructive, why has man kind been using it for over 5000 years? You would of thought man kind would of discarded something so destructive 4000 years ago, but they didnt, they used it as medicine and as a relaxant. Sorry if you know afew people who cant smoke cannabis because it affects them badly, i know many people who cant drink beer because it gives them a bad reaction. LETS CRIMINALIZE BEER, Apart from cigarettes its the biggest killer on earth. how many deaths relating directly to Cannabis? NONE, ever, in the 5000 years humans have been using it, not one person died from it.

focusonpeace wrote:

Bonky Badger wrote:
I guess it boils down to wether you like a puff or you NEED a puff of weed every day.

That's the difference. Could the pro-puff brigade honestly say they could live without the stuff tomorrow?

Im pro cannabis and i havent needed to smoke in years, luckily i dont suffer from insomnia any more. But people who still suffer from conditions like MS, epilepsy, chron's disease and more, they NEED cannabis, its not because they are dependant on the high, but the effect it has on their body. It helps them function normally, like i said in my previous posts, some people want it, like some people want a coffee or a beer. And some people NEED it, because no matter what the misinformed say, cannabis IS medicinal. Its been scientifically proven.

If there is a proven medicinal requirement for someone to take cannabis, you'll find no argument from me. However, I think most people are defending its use under any circumstances. To be so reliant on any substance can't be good for your wellbeing and that includes alcohol, etc.

Personally, if people want to smoke weed in the comfort of their own home and it doesn't hurt anyone that doesn't bother me either. Personally, I think tobacco and weed are a huge waste of money and are often used as a crutch by people who have wider issues.

I think any reliance on any substance (drugs, drink, tobacco, etc.) isn't good for you.

All things in moderation if used maturely, blah blah.

However, I would say that, like alcohol, the image of the heavy user isn't a complimentary one.

Yes bonky badger, I havent smoked it for 3 months

sorry this is far too civilised a discussion for a cannabis story. dope is a philosophy. look at the strength of feeling it generates amongst the dependants. it is not a take it or leave it for many people, it is a lifestyle. in all honesty do we want our kids getting indoctrinated into that lifestyle - that of underachievement, low esteem and dare i say it dependance. i for one will fight tooth and nail to ensure it remains illegal.

I agree all things in moderation, And there its scientific medical uses for cannabis. But comparing a heavy cannabis smoke to a heavy alcohol drinker, alcohol is way more destructive to society, forget the destruction alcohol does to the user. I also think its because cannabis has been demonized since the 1930's, its hard for people to accept its a plant with intentions to heal.
Please note that Cannabis is an ancient herbal remedy and has only recently been considered a street drug. Cannabis was included in the US Pharmacopoeia until 1942. The amount of misinformation, propaganda and negative anecdotal evidence blown way out of proportion is why certain people are disgusted by cannabis, because they only think as far back as hippies smoking it protesting against the Vietnam war.

Any one who cares about the 'cure', must watch this vid...

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=0psJhQHk_
GI

Bonky Badger wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:

Bonky Badger wrote:
I guess it boils down to wether you like a puff or you NEED a puff of weed every day.

That's the difference. Could the pro-puff brigade honestly say they could live without the stuff tomorrow?

Im pro cannabis and i havent needed to smoke in years, luckily i dont suffer from insomnia any more. But people who still suffer from conditions like MS, epilepsy, chron's disease and more, they NEED cannabis, its not because they are dependant on the high, but the effect it has on their body. It helps them function normally, like i said in my previous posts, some people want it, like some people want a coffee or a beer. And some people NEED it, because no matter what the misinformed say, cannabis IS medicinal. Its been scientifically proven.

If there is a proven medicinal requirement for someone to take cannabis, you'll find no argument from me. However, I think most people are defending its use under any circumstances. To be so reliant on any substance can't be good for your wellbeing and that includes alcohol, etc.

Personally, if people want to smoke weed in the comfort of their own home and it doesn't hurt anyone that doesn't bother me either. Personally, I think tobacco and weed are a huge waste of money and are often used as a crutch by people who have wider issues.

I think any reliance on any substance (drugs, drink, tobacco, etc.) isn't good for you.

All things in moderation if used maturely, blah blah.

However, I would say that, like alcohol, the image of the heavy user isn't a complimentary one.

then it can be prescribed in oral, tablet form. trouble is everyone who smokes cannabis has some sort of pain they're 'managing' - usually just the pain of their miserable, insignificant existence.

focusonpeace wrote:

Bonky Badger wrote:
I guess it boils down to wether you like a puff or you NEED a puff of weed every day.

That's the difference. Could the pro-puff brigade honestly say they could live without the stuff tomorrow?

Im pro cannabis and i havent needed to smoke in years, luckily i dont suffer from insomnia any more. But people who still suffer from conditions like MS, epilepsy, chron's disease and more, they NEED cannabis, its not because they are dependant on the high, but the effect it has on their body. It helps them function normally, like i said in my previous posts, some people want it, like some people want a coffee or a beer. And some people NEED it, because no matter what the misinformed say, cannabis IS medicinal. Its been scientifically proven.

so we did the MS numbers (statistically insignificant though clearly not if you are a sufferer). now tell me how many people suffer from chron's disease in the uk..?

ok it's 120k plus the 60k MS sufferers is 180k divided by 7mio = 2.6% of cannabis users. i think your focus needs to be on the 97.4%

asbo foundation, whats your problem? it doesnt matter if there is only 1 person in the UK with the disease, if cannabis can help them and nothing else works, what on earth has it got to do with your opinions? no offence but your not making sense, if there is something that can help someone, what the F has it got to do with you?
I seriously think your missing the point all together.

focusonpeace wrote:
asbo foundation, whats your problem? it doesnt matter if there is only 1 person in the UK with the disease, if cannabis can help them and nothing else works, what on earth has it got to do with your opinions? no offence but your not making sense, if there is something that can help someone, what the F has it got to do with you?
I seriously think your missing the point all together.

"what the F has it got to do with you?" i thought you were focussedonpeace? you've gotta do better than that i'm afraid

asbo foundation wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
asbo foundation, whats your problem? it doesnt matter if there is only 1 person in the UK with the disease, if cannabis can help them and nothing else works, what on earth has it got to do with your opinions? no offence but your not making sense, if there is something that can help someone, what the F has it got to do with you?
I seriously think your missing the point all together.

"what the F has it got to do with you?" i thought you were focussedonpeace? you've gotta do better than that i'm afraid

Thats what I thought, its got nothing to do with you. Im sure if you were in the position they are you would have an alternative perspective...
If im focus on peace your the morally superior who enjoy's looking down your nose at the less fortunate who have to take cannabis, or people or choose to and get a sadistic thrill in seeing people put in jail. You cant understand why anyone would want to smoke anything or do any drug. From your perspective the world would be better off if no one did anything. People who believe the misinformation that Pot is harmful to society are a joke.

s1nnah wrote:
thats the best thing about comments in local rags. everyone knows someone whos life was ruined by cannabis.

So let me ask you this. If cannabis is soooooo bad how come I started smoking before I got my first job. I have since not spent a single day unemployed. Infact I have two jobs to make ends meet since my wife lost hers in this recession. How?
So if I can work hard, pay my taxes, bring up two lovely children who are now at university why on earth should I be treated like a criminal for choosing cannabis over alcohol. Please please explain how I am not a useful member of society?
discuss

oh rubbish. we've just run through the less fortunate stats. the number's are insignificant. granted MS and i gifted you chron's although iffy. now what about that 97.4%??

that was obviously in response to you F all over peace

Asbo is a troll, stop feeding him. It doesnt matter if every scientist in the world unanimously agreed it was actually good for you, he'd still spout his same comments. He even said before he does not know a single user so how could he know what users and their lives are like?

yes, but they don't you clown

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Asbo is a troll, stop feeding him. It doesnt matter if every scientist in the world unanimously agreed it was actually good for you, he'd still spout his same comments. He even said before he does not know a single user so how could he know what users and their lives are like?

that really is a weak response - even for you met-rx junky. maybe you should re-focus your attention on bashing the ethnic minorities..you're quite good at that.

Weed is something that's never appealed (and I have tried it). I do have concerns on its long-term use in respect of mental health issues, but I suspect that most dependants would have had mental health issues, dopes or not!

I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid, but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.

I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone.

Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer.

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Asbo is a troll, stop feeding him. It doesnt matter if every scientist in the world unanimously agreed it was actually good for you, he'd still spout his same comments. He even said before he does not know a single user so how could he know what users and their lives are like?

Completely agree, most scientists have proved its medicinal value. i dont know why im trying to convince people to wake up, when they dont even want to open their eyes. I think people such as Asbo get their info from the daily mail and biased reporting along with bad science.

yes, we don't know why you're trying to convince us either. and that is as good as your argument gets....

Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Well said that man (or girl!)
.
Well said Bonky Badger too...
"I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid (debatable as many, if not most smokers act perfectly normal after a smoke although it also depends how much they have smoked) but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone. Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer".
.
Just one point, most people all over the world use some sort drug whether it's opium, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco or just tea and coffee. Are you seriously saying you don't enjoy the odd pint of beer or cup of tea? (if you disagree with the tea bit try doing without it for a week then have a cup, gives you quite a hit!).
.
Seems to me that using different substances to make us feel good is part of the human condition therefore anyone who denies that, like our friend Asbo, may not be completely human! (suspected that for a long time!)

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Well said that man (or girl!)
.
Well said Bonky Badger too...
"I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid (debatable as many, if not most smokers act perfectly normal after a smoke although it also depends how much they have smoked) but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone. Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer".
.
Just one point, most people all over the world use some sort drug whether it's opium, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco or just tea and coffee. Are you seriously saying you don't enjoy the odd pint of beer or cup of tea? (if you disagree with the tea bit try doing without it for a week then have a cup, gives you quite a hit!).
.
Seems to me that using different substances to make us feel good is part of the human condition therefore anyone who denies that, like our friend Asbo, may not be completely human! (suspected that for a long time!)

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

Truth Will Prevail wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Well said that man (or girl!)
.
Well said Bonky Badger too...
"I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid (debatable as many, if not most smokers act perfectly normal after a smoke although it also depends how much they have smoked) but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone. Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer".
.
Just one point, most people all over the world use some sort drug whether it's opium, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco or just tea and coffee. Are you seriously saying you don't enjoy the odd pint of beer or cup of tea? (if you disagree with the tea bit try doing without it for a week then have a cup, gives you quite a hit!).
.
Seems to me that using different substances to make us feel good is part of the human condition therefore anyone who denies that, like our friend Asbo, may not be completely human! (suspected that for a long time!)

I must admit, i do love my tea!
In fact ,when i used to smoke cannabis i could go days without it with not much withdrawal ...but never a day without at least 1 cuppa tea.
All you have to you is look at a pub, and a coffee shop to sense a big difference in atmosphere.
Im not saying all pubs are violent places, but it does usually kick off in pubs, especially when alcohol can fuel that aggression. In a cannabis coffee shop there is no tension, no fights or arguments. In fact the style of conversation is no different to that of a normal coffee shop. Philosophy, religion, politics, sports, nature.
The attitude that all people who smoke or use cannabis automatically turn into smelly, incoherent losers is false, that stereotype was actually introduced by American media about Mexicans around the 1920's-30's..Since most of the 'Marijuana' came from South America. The attitude was, if you smoke cannabis you will end up like a Lazy, sweaty Mexican, obviously a racist dig at Latin communities. This stereotype is only able to survive by misinformed people continuing to discriminate. its wrong, because we dont call wine connoisseurs Boozers and smelly drunks, and we dont call people names if they enjoy a daily Tea, so why cannabis?
Because its been demonized for so long, for all the wrong reasons. Here is a link which explains why cannabis was made illegal in the first place.

http://www.otcmagic.
com/why-did-marijuan
a-become-illegal-in-
the-1st-place

An interesting read for curious people..

Nebs wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

“Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn’t the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?” – Bill Hicks

Truth Will Prevail wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Well said that man (or girl!)
.
Well said Bonky Badger too...
"I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid (debatable as many, if not most smokers act perfectly normal after a smoke although it also depends how much they have smoked) but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone. Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer".
.
Just one point, most people all over the world use some sort drug whether it's opium, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco or just tea and coffee. Are you seriously saying you don't enjoy the odd pint of beer or cup of tea? (if you disagree with the tea bit try doing without it for a week then have a cup, gives you quite a hit!).
.
Seems to me that using different substances to make us feel good is part of the human condition therefore anyone who denies that, like our friend Asbo, may not be completely human! (suspected that for a long time!)

lol you're really churning the blog handles these days untruth. maybe you have come back as focusontruth.

focusonpeace wrote:

Nebs wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

“Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn’t the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?” – Bill Hicks

you're displaying far too much of a vested interest in this blog to have given up smoking this crapp

Nebs wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

well they're not really facts - they're anecdotes, as is conceded further up the blog

asbo foundation wrote:

Nebs wrote:

focusonpeace wrote: Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

well they're not really facts - they're anecdotes, as is conceded further up the blog

Thats right, the "facts" that Nebs and you quote are anecdotes whereas the facts you have heard from the pro cannabis posters are real facts and sensible arguments. If you and Nebs had any intelligence you would admit that there are strong arguments for decriminalising instead of just parroting your anti cannabis tabloid propaganda.

Truth Will Prevail wrote:

asbo foundation wrote:

Nebs wrote:

focusonpeace wrote: Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Works both ways.

well they're not really facts - they're anecdotes, as is conceded further up the blog

Thats right, the "facts" that Nebs and you quote are anecdotes whereas the facts you have heard from the pro cannabis posters are real facts and sensible arguments. If you and Nebs had any intelligence you would admit that there are strong arguments for decriminalising instead of just parroting your anti cannabis tabloid propaganda.

funny that eh. as soon as we try to analyse the "facts" nothing stands up. this was the response to my attempt to analyse the "facts"
focusonpeace says...
4:28pm Mon 28 May 12
asbo foundation, whats your problem? it doesnt matter if there is only 1 person in the UK with the disease, if cannabis can help them and nothing else works, what on earth has it got to do with your opinions? no offence but your not making sense, if there is something that can help someone, what the F has it got to do with you?
I seriously think your missing the point all together.
.
there are no strong arguments for legalising cannabis. being less "harmful" than another harmful substance is not good enough i'm afraid.

They are facts, scientific facts. In Canada for example, to get cannabis, you have to have a medical condition and be prescribed/recommend
ed by a doctor. If cannabis had no medicinal value why do they give cannabis flowers, oil, or seeds to people with serious conditions? Fact is science has proved its medicinal value time and time again, people like you cannot accept that. But you dont need to, your approval is not needed. Cannabis is an ancient herbal remedy and has only recently been considered a street drug. Cannabis was included in the US Pharmacopoeia until 1942. The weird thing is anecdotal or not, it works, and it heals. Yea people abuse it, like people abuse anything including legal drugs which can get you high.
Cannabis has a wide range of medicinal properties.. FACT :)

"If Cannabis were unknown, and bio-prospectors were suddenly to find it in some remote mountain crevice, it's discovery would no doubt be hailed as a medical breakthrough. Scientists would praise it's potential for treating everything from pain to cancer and marvel at it's rich pharmacopoeia; many of whose chemicals mimic vital molecules in the human body." - The Economist

focusonpeace wrote:
They are facts, scientific facts. In Canada for example, to get cannabis, you have to have a medical condition and be prescribed/recommend

ed by a doctor. If cannabis had no medicinal value why do they give cannabis flowers, oil, or seeds to people with serious conditions? Fact is science has proved its medicinal value time and time again, people like you cannot accept that. But you dont need to, your approval is not needed. Cannabis is an ancient herbal remedy and has only recently been considered a street drug. Cannabis was included in the US Pharmacopoeia until 1942. The weird thing is anecdotal or not, it works, and it heals. Yea people abuse it, like people abuse anything including legal drugs which can get you high.
Cannabis has a wide range of medicinal properties.. FACT :)

"If Cannabis were unknown, and bio-prospectors were suddenly to find it in some remote mountain crevice, it's discovery would no doubt be hailed as a medical breakthrough. Scientists would praise it's potential for treating everything from pain to cancer and marvel at it's rich pharmacopoeia; many of whose chemicals mimic vital molecules in the human body." - The Economist

more anecdotes i'm afraid. if it has medicinal qualities it should only be made available in oral, tablet form. doesn't every cannabis user have a "condition" they're managing.

Glaucoma, Spasticity in multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, Breast cancer, HIV/AIDS and more.
Scientific studies are not anecdotal, are you drunk?

Im going to stop feeding trolls now, but heres a link to show what some recent studies have found.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Medical_can
nabis#Recent_studies

In patients suffering from nausea, the swallowing of capsules may itself provoke vomiting.

i see you avoid the tablet proposal. i surmise you're not really arguing for the medicinal qualities more the stoned off your plums qualities

focusonpeace wrote:
In patients suffering from nausea, the swallowing of capsules may itself provoke vomiting.

ok anal suppository then... that'll be right up untruth's strasse

asbo foundation wrote:
i see you avoid the tablet proposal. i surmise you're not really arguing for the medicinal qualities more the stoned off your plums qualities

Cannabis is in tablet form, but like i said, In patients suffering from nausea, the swallowing of capsules may itself provoke vomiting. I gave you the link, why wont you research?

Cannabis comes in many forms, some in pills, in edibles, in oil, in vapour/smoke and more. Why would you want people to stick something up themselves when they dont have to?
Weird to say the least

does the suppository cause anal vomiting?

Copied from a BBC report based on survey by MedixUK, a website for DOCTORS...
.
"More than half of (UK) doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and one in three want the drug legalised, a survey has found. Eight out of 10 doctors say they would prescribe cannabis to patients".
.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/health/100162
8.stm
.
However, trials of Sativex, a drug derived from cannabis suggest that possible side effects are worse from Sativex than from the pure, natural plant. MS sufferers I know confirm this and say that ordinary cannabis is better. Fancy that, a pure natural plant works best, who would have thought it?
.
From Asbo..."there are no strong arguments for legalising cannabis. being less "harmful" than another harmful substance is not good enough i'm afraid". Err yes IT IS. If we allow people to use alcohol then there is no legal or moral justication for banning substances that are considerably less harmful, it's not lethal for a start.

asbo foundation wrote:
does the suppository cause anal vomiting?

Anal vomiting is what your doing now in the context of chatting complete crap. Like I said, why do you want people to stick something up their behind when its not necessary? Did you even click on the link i gave you so you can see the SCIENTIFIC fact?

fancy that stoned off your plums wins every time....who'd have thought it? starting from a position of illegality there are zero compelling reasons to legalise a harmful substance.

focusonpeace wrote:

asbo foundation wrote:
does the suppository cause anal vomiting?

Anal vomiting is what your doing now in the context of chatting complete crap. Like I said, why do you want people to stick something up their behind when its not necessary? Did you even click on the link i gave you so you can see the SCIENTIFIC fact?

i think you already know the answer to your own question. a typical response from your keyboard. when asked a direct question you deflect. you have no answer really. all roads lead to stoned off your plums

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Medical_can
nabis#Recent_studies


Look on a serious note, i want you to research the link i gave you so you can understand how it does help people.

BTW, many experts agree cannabis should be legalized. Harmful, yes but in context. As harmful as a coffee or a cup of tea. Not as harmful as beer or tobacco. FACT

Trolls don't understand the difference between scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence, we should pity them.

http://en.wikipedia.

org/wiki/Medical_can

nabis#Recent_studies


This link is the only response you'll get from me now

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Trolls don't understand the difference between scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence, we should pity them.

The word Pity is an understatement.

No point focusonpeace, g'night.

focusonpeace wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.

org/wiki/Medical_can

nabis#Recent_studies



Look on a serious note, i want you to research the link i gave you so you can understand how it does help people.

BTW, many experts agree cannabis should be legalized. Harmful, yes but in context. As harmful as a coffee or a cup of tea. Not as harmful as beer or tobacco. FACT

still not answering that question...

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
No point focusonpeace, g'night.

i give your new user name 36 hours

Ill answer your questions when you have done the research on the link i gave you.

http://en.wikipedia.


org/wiki/Medical_can


nabis#Recent_studies

''does the suppository cause anal vomiting?'' Stupid questions don't deserve answers.

i was being flippant because you avoided the question (just for a change!)

I cannot tell what context as its in text

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
No point focusonpeace, g'night.

we should get last poster involved here. i'm short at 36hrs and need an untruth TOOPI pronto.

asbo, cannabis contains THC, CBD, CBN, CBG and so on. CBD is interesting scientists more and more in countries where cannabis is allowed to be researched. Scientific and clinical studies indicate that CBD could be effective in easing symptoms of a wide range of
'difficult to control' conditions including rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, alcoholism, PTSD, epilepsy, antibiotic resistant infections and neurological disorders. CBD has demonstrated neuroprotective effects, and its anti-cancer potential is currently being explored at several academic research centers in the U.S. and other countries.

Thats nothing but positive, thank nature for cannabis.

focusonpeace wrote:
asbo, cannabis contains THC, CBD, CBN, CBG and so on. CBD is interesting scientists more and more in countries where cannabis is allowed to be researched. Scientific and clinical studies indicate that CBD could be effective in easing symptoms of a wide range of
'difficult to control' conditions including rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, alcoholism, PTSD, epilepsy, antibiotic resistant infections and neurological disorders. CBD has demonstrated neuroprotective effects, and its anti-cancer potential is currently being explored at several academic research centers in the U.S. and other countries.

Thats nothing but positive, thank nature for cannabis.

that's a good one. cannabis to fix neurological disorders. rofl. i assume the anti-cancer potential doesn't cover mouth, throat or lung cancer.

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=LCrcStV2r
60

This short video might answer your question

Wrong again asbo, a 20-year study shows people who smoke cannabis have less chance of lung cancer than people who dont smoke at all: www.naturalnews.com/
035980_cannabis_smok
ers_cancer.html

Also you've mentioned suppositories in 2 diffent stories now, think somebody has something on their mind...

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Copied from a BBC report based on survey by MedixUK, a website for DOCTORS...
.
"More than half of (UK) doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and one in three want the drug legalised, a survey has found. Eight out of 10 doctors say they would prescribe cannabis to patients".
.
http://news.bbc.co.u

k/1/hi/health/100162

8.stm
.
However, trials of Sativex, a drug derived from cannabis suggest that possible side effects are worse from Sativex than from the pure, natural plant. MS sufferers I know confirm this and say that ordinary cannabis is better. Fancy that, a pure natural plant works best, who would have thought it?
.
From Asbo..."there are no strong arguments for legalising cannabis. being less "harmful" than another harmful substance is not good enough i'm afraid". Err yes IT IS. If we allow people to use alcohol then there is no legal or moral justication for banning substances that are considerably less harmful, it's not lethal for a start.

So for those who need it medicinally, 8 out of 10 doctors will prescribe it. No problems there, anyone who really needs it can get it prescribed.

One in three doctors want it legalised. So two in three doctors don't want it legalised. Are those two thirds of the medical profession the same as me, Sun reading morons who just get their facts from a 30 year old edition of the sun newspaper.

In the link you gave you forgot to post this bit.
However, some doctors expressed concerns, with half said they knew of patients who had gone on to harder drugs after smoking cannabis. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, a gateway drug, but if half of doctors have seen the same thing then it makes you wonder.

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Also you've mentioned suppositories in 2 diffent stories now, think somebody has something on their mind...

i'm selfless and as always just thinking of your requirements.

Nebs wrote:

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Copied from a BBC report based on survey by MedixUK, a website for DOCTORS...
.
"More than half of (UK) doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and one in three want the drug legalised, a survey has found. Eight out of 10 doctors say they would prescribe cannabis to patients".
.
http://news.bbc.co.u


k/1/hi/health/100162


8.stm
.
However, trials of Sativex, a drug derived from cannabis suggest that possible side effects are worse from Sativex than from the pure, natural plant. MS sufferers I know confirm this and say that ordinary cannabis is better. Fancy that, a pure natural plant works best, who would have thought it?
.
From Asbo..."there are no strong arguments for legalising cannabis. being less "harmful" than another harmful substance is not good enough i'm afraid". Err yes IT IS. If we allow people to use alcohol then there is no legal or moral justication for banning substances that are considerably less harmful, it's not lethal for a start.

So for those who need it medicinally, 8 out of 10 doctors will prescribe it. No problems there, anyone who really needs it can get it prescribed.

One in three doctors want it legalised. So two in three doctors don't want it legalised. Are those two thirds of the medical profession the same as me, Sun reading morons who just get their facts from a 30 year old edition of the sun newspaper.

In the link you gave you forgot to post this bit.
However, some doctors expressed concerns, with half said they knew of patients who had gone on to harder drugs after smoking cannabis. Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't, a gateway drug, but if half of doctors have seen the same thing then it makes you wonder.

as always - cutting straight through the bs nebs.

Doctors are not actually experts on cannabis, I know, I used to go sailing with one and we often discussed this subject. Doctors are just as liable to be biased as the general population, possibly more so because doctors are conservative by nature where health issues are concerned. This is proved by their claim that half of all tokers go on to use harder drugs. It was PROVEN long ago that there is no more connection between cannabis and harder drugs than there is between tea and alcohol. Most alcoholics drank tea before they moved onto alcohol just as most hard drug users tried cannabis before they moved on to harder drugs but the connection has been proven to be incidental not causal long ago. If this connection was real there would be loads more hard drug addicts than there actually are. If Doctors were trained in cannabis properly they would understand this but most don't.
.
The important statistic is that even though Doctors are 'health puritans' by nature more than half of all doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would still prescribe cannabis. Put that in your pipe and .. oh no, you don't do you.

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Doctors are not actually experts on cannabis, I know, I used to go sailing with one and we often discussed this subject. Doctors are just as liable to be biased as the general population, possibly more so because doctors are conservative by nature where health issues are concerned. This is proved by their claim that half of all tokers go on to use harder drugs. It was PROVEN long ago that there is no more connection between cannabis and harder drugs than there is between tea and alcohol. Most alcoholics drank tea before they moved onto alcohol just as most hard drug users tried cannabis before they moved on to harder drugs but the connection has been proven to be incidental not causal long ago. If this connection was real there would be loads more hard drug addicts than there actually are. If Doctors were trained in cannabis properly they would understand this but most don't.
.
The important statistic is that even though Doctors are 'health puritans' by nature more than half of all doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would still prescribe cannabis. Put that in your pipe and .. oh no, you don't do you.

So the pro lobby quote things from doctors, and then when we point out some contradictions from the same set of doctors, you come back and say that it doesn't count as they are not experts and not properly trained.

Then to crown off a totally biased argument, you say that these doctors, who a few paragraphs earlier were not experts and were not properly trained, are now quite capable of giving us an important statistic that the laws are too strict and 8 out of 10 would prescribe it.

So lets just be clear what you are saying about this set of doctors, in the survey that the pro cannabis side brought into this argument. Anything the doctors say that is pro cannabis is important, but anything they say against cannabis is because they are not experts and are not properly trained. Not really convincing is it, although I'm sure all the cannabis users will agree with your interpretation.

Sorry if that was a bit too hard for you to understand Nebs. It's simple really, Doctors are not experts on cannabis cos the laws in this country have not allowed enough proper research on the subject but they do see some of the consequences of cannabis use and form their opinions accordingly. There, that wasn't so hard was it?
.
To Last Poster... (continued from previous story on cannabis, also some relevance to Mudlark, Asbo, Nebs etc. Apologies to other contributors who may be confused by this)
.
Last Poster, I am sorry your grandson is having problems with drugs but in my experience any predisposition towards abusing drugs is ALWAYS the parents (or grandparents) fault. The issue of drugs has been raised with every teenager I have ever known, which includes my own children (now 22, 32 and 41, yes same marriage), all their friends, and all the children of our friends and relatives, and in every case the critical factor has been honesty and knowledge or lack of knowledge.
.
The parents of the vast majority of these kids have been honest with them about drugs, they don't tell them cannabis is evil but they do warn them that there is a small but real chance of younger teenagers having problems. NOT ONE of these kids has developed a problem with drugs whereas the the kids of parents who tell their kids that all drugs are evil have all had problems with drug abuse.
.
This is born out by the schools and Police who learnt 30 years ago that honesty is the best policy. Never mind anything else if you tell kids that all drugs are evil they are just as likely to try truly dangerous drugs like heroin as they are to have a few puffs on a joint. In conclusion if your grandson has problems with drugs I strongly suggest you look closer to home for the reasons why. You know it makes sense.

Smoking it is literally better for you physical health than not smoking it, thats a fact

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Smoking it is literally better for you physical health than not smoking it, thats a fact

This is where the argument for descends into rose-tinted fantasy.

You're essentially saying that inhaling cannabis smoke is better for you breathing in fresh air.

I'd like to see the scientific study that proves this comprehensively.

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Smoking it is literally better for you physical health than not smoking it, thats a fact

our lives are so hollow and empty we need to escape the mundanity of our own existence - yeah. high five me shankovski!

One thing I can tell you is that all the tokers I know, whether regular or occasional users - mostly late fifties to early sixties - are slim, fit and look younger than their years whereas all the boozers are fat, unhealthy and wrinkly. Mind you this could also be explained by the smokers generally being better educated, better specimens all round.

www.naturalnews.com/
035980_cannabis_smok
ers_cancer.html "cannabis smokers show greater lung capacity and lower cancer levels than non smokers"

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
One thing I can tell you is that all the tokers I know, whether regular or occasional users - mostly late fifties to early sixties - are slim, fit and look younger than their years whereas all the boozers are fat, unhealthy and wrinkly. Mind you this could also be explained by the smokers generally being better educated, better specimens all round.

remind me again...i forgot. which one is it for you...cannabis addiction or tobacco addiction?

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
www.naturalnews.com/ 035980_cannabis_smok ers_cancer.html "cannabis smokers show greater lung capacity and lower cancer levels than non smokers"

Funny that, I had a chest x-ray some years ago and the radiologist remarked that I had exceptionally large and healthy lungs even though I have smoked, in moderation, for most of my life.
.
Tobacco Asbo? What the odd half a ciggie at weekends? Hardly addiction but then you seem fixated by the word addiction don't you? You're not an ex junkie yourself are you? As you claim to be younger than me you are clearly not retired so I'd like to know how you can spend all your time on here, you're not a benefits cheat are you?

you quit on doctor's advice. hardly the picture of health you try to portray.

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
www.naturalnews.com/

035980_cannabis_smok

ers_cancer.html "cannabis smokers show greater lung capacity and lower cancer levels than non smokers"

That article is vague and biased at best. Looking at the original medical evidence, the following is written:

"Prior studies of marijuana smokers have demonstrated consistent evidence of airway mucosal injury and inflammation as well as increased respiratory symptoms such as cough, phlegm production, and wheeze, similar to that seen in tobacco smokers."

That doesn't sound as though smoking cannabis is better for you than not!

Short-term effects may also be hiding long-term effects and the study itself says that it is long-term. It's too early to provide that evidence as overwhelming truth.

Unfortunately, Natural News only highlights the parts it wants to advertise as, judging by the amount of adverts on that page, it clearly has a huge vested interest in knocking back any criticism of cannabis use.

It's rose-tinted.

Also, increased lung capacity from increased smoking actions is a bit like gloating that your stomach has a greater capacity from eating at Greggs every day. :)

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Sorry if that was a bit too hard for you to understand Nebs. It's simple really, Doctors are not experts on cannabis cos the laws in this country have not allowed enough proper research on the subject but they do see some of the consequences of cannabis use and form their opinions accordingly. There, that wasn't so hard was it?
.
To Last Poster... (continued from previous story on cannabis, also some relevance to Mudlark, Asbo, Nebs etc. Apologies to other contributors who may be confused by this)
.
Last Poster, I am sorry your grandson is having problems with drugs but in my experience any predisposition towards abusing drugs is ALWAYS the parents (or grandparents) fault. The issue of drugs has been raised with every teenager I have ever known, which includes my own children (now 22, 32 and 41, yes same marriage), all their friends, and all the children of our friends and relatives, and in every case the critical factor has been honesty and knowledge or lack of knowledge.
.
The parents of the vast majority of these kids have been honest with them about drugs, they don't tell them cannabis is evil but they do warn them that there is a small but real chance of younger teenagers having problems. NOT ONE of these kids has developed a problem with drugs whereas the the kids of parents who tell their kids that all drugs are evil have all had problems with drug abuse.
.
This is born out by the schools and Police who learnt 30 years ago that honesty is the best policy. Never mind anything else if you tell kids that all drugs are evil they are just as likely to try truly dangerous drugs like heroin as they are to have a few puffs on a joint. In conclusion if your grandson has problems with drugs I strongly suggest you look closer to home for the reasons why. You know it makes sense.

There is no need to be insulting. In a debate, if there is something that you think someone does not understand or has misinterpreted then it is up to you to point it out. Not make condescending remarks, which do you no credit.

The fact here is that this is a survey introduced into this argument by the pro cannabis side. And when I pointed out some things in the survey, all of a sudden you try and turn it on its head and attack the credibility of doctors.

They see the consequences of cannabis use and form their opinions accordingly. Thats what you said. Fair enough. My guess would be that they do get training in cannabis, but notwithstanding that and even if you are right and they have no expert knowledge, I would suggest that their opinion is probably more informed than the man on the Clapham Omnibus, and two thirds of the doctors say it should not be legalised.

If you are going to dispute their experience then why should we take notice of your experience, with the shouting of ALWAYS and NOT ONE. Your suggestion that it is ALWAYS the parents fault is astonishing.

Are you saying that your experiences and conclusions are a valid contribution to the debate, but the experiences and conclusions of doctors are not. You say legalise it. Two thirds of doctors say don't legalise it.

I'll repeat it in case you miss it. Two thirds of doctors say don't legalise it.

asbo foundation wrote:
you quit on doctor's advice. hardly the picture of health you try to portray.

Didn't quit on Doc's advice, no relevance whatsoever asbo. As the radiologist said at the time, some people can smoke tobacco with no apparent harm, ditto most cannabis smokers and THAT IS A FACT. Now answer the question!
.
Nebs you muppet "Your suggestion that it is ALWAYS the parents fault is astonishing". Go ask any psychologist, if the kids go off the rails IT IS ALWAYS the parents fault. Don't you know anything? (or is this guilt speaking?).
.
Shame you are so biased you can't understand plain English, Doctors are NOT trained to deal with cannabis, except maybe psychiatrists. And even though Doctors are 'health puritans' by nature more than half of all doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would still prescribe cannabis. Has that sunk in yet or do you just pick the stats you like?

Same article is in the ny times, msn, usatoday, time, abc, etc what was their vested interests?

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd, andTruth Will Prevail. Asbo and Nebs simply dont know, and dont want to know, they prefer their head being stuck firmly in the sand. Stop feeding these narrow minded trolls, you wont get any sense from them in a debate

it plainly did you some harm. may god strike you down if that's an untruth, untruth. i will check it directly with super sarah.

LordSpiffSpaffington
The2nd wrote:
Same article is in the ny times, msn, usatoday, time, abc, etc what was their vested interests?

You pointed me towards Natural News though rather than the NY Times. Clearly, a noted journalistic product without any kind of biased and vested interest at all.

It still holds true however that your statement that smoking cannabis is better for you than not is absolute fantasy.

focusonpeace wrote:
LordSpiffSpaffington The2nd, andTruth Will Prevail. Asbo and Nebs simply dont know, and dont want to know, they prefer their head being stuck firmly in the sand. Stop feeding these narrow minded trolls, you wont get any sense from them in a debate

Too true, Nebs clearly formed his opinion decades ago without any real knowledge of the issues but Asbo is worse, he just distorts and exaggerates everything that anyone says. I mentioned that I had to have a chest x-ray ten years ago and Asbo ASSUMES it was smoking related (it wasn't) and ASSUMES the Doctor told me to stop smoking (he didn't). Asbo must have a very active imagination! Btw the x-ray was because I had lost a bit of weight and he wanted to check there was nothing bad going on. And there wasn't, probably just stress related as I had a very responsible job and soon put the weight back on. No point telling that to Asbo though, his mind is probably conjuring up pictures of me being obese and gorging on junk food as we speak, and he'd be totally wrong on both counts.

we go way back untruth. you told me your favourite number is 9 - ie doctor's orders

save southend wrote:
What a load of cobblers, the police walk past groups of "students" in the high when the stench of drugs wafts around them and they dont even look, they have to trip over a pot smoker to take action ,

to be fair though those big fat sweaty PCSO type coppers probably can't smell it over the pong of their B.O. and the whiff of Monster Munch/Burger and chips on their fingers and around their slobbery fat mouths....

Truth Will Prevail wrote:

asbo foundation wrote:
you quit on doctor's advice. hardly the picture of health you try to portray.

Didn't quit on Doc's advice, no relevance whatsoever asbo. As the radiologist said at the time, some people can smoke tobacco with no apparent harm, ditto most cannabis smokers and THAT IS A FACT. Now answer the question!
.
Nebs you muppet "Your suggestion that it is ALWAYS the parents fault is astonishing". Go ask any psychologist, if the kids go off the rails IT IS ALWAYS the parents fault. Don't you know anything? (or is this guilt speaking?).
.
Shame you are so biased you can't understand plain English, Doctors are NOT trained to deal with cannabis, except maybe psychiatrists. And even though Doctors are 'health puritans' by nature more than half of all doctors believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would still prescribe cannabis. Has that sunk in yet or do you just pick the stats you like?

I don't pick the stats, it has sunk in, I agreed with the 8 out of 10 who prescribe it where it is needed. I said that in an earlier post. Maybe you missed it. Am I not allowed to agree with you on something?

What do you think about the stat that I found in the same article, that two thirds of those same doctors do not agree that cannabis should be legalised?

You seriously think that doctors get no training in cannabis. Try this link, took me 30 seconds to find it, I haven't read it all but I think it shows that they do get training. http://www.nta.nhs.u
k/uploads/clinical_g
uidelines_2007.pdf

You are back to the abuse again. Have a look at what the psychiatrists say about abuse. They say that, amongst other things, someone with a drug problem may easily get out of control during arguments. Here is the link http://www.mentalhel
p.net/poc/view_doc.p
hp?type=doc&id=8482
Last time I looked there were a dozen psychiatrists online at this site. Maybe they can help you if you ask them.

No guilt here. I have been offered to try cannabis many times but simply say no thanks. It's not difficult.

You persist in saying that if kids go off the rails it is always the parents fault. ALWAYS. I think you are mistaken.

Don't care what it says, the Doctor I used to sail with told me they only had one single lecture on illegal drug use in seven years of training, unless they specialise, and most of that was about the more harmful drugs, heroin, crack etc. If they get more now that is a recent development. Doctors are just people and subject to the same biases and prejudices as everyone else, possibly worse as they dislike anything they think is "unhealthy".
.
I am not abusing you or "getting out of control", I'm just stating the facts but thanks for the laugh.
.
If you do not understand that the parents are ALWAYS to blame then you are either not a parent or not a good parent. It is true you muppet, think about it!

So one doctor, who may or may not have been aware that you have a drug habit, and who was a friend of yours, told you something a while ago, and that is sufficient for you to dismiss the opinions of 1,000 other doctors. Dismiss, apart from the bits that agree with your opinions.

If you think that badly of doctors, why did you post the link in support of your arguments at 9.40pm on Monday, and put DOCTORS in capital letters. Make your mind up.

I take it you have notified the authorities that you have solved the problem of nature v nurture, and that peer pressure does not exist.

waste of time and police money. why not just legalise and then the kids would probably do it on seafronts and beaches rather than tucked away in the corner of southend outside someones home.

hobo316 wrote:
waste of time and police money. why not just legalise and then the kids would probably do it on seafronts and beaches rather than tucked away in the corner of southend outside someones home.

It's the kids that need protection. They are the most susceptible.

Nebs wrote:

hobo316 wrote:
waste of time and police money. why not just legalise and then the kids would probably do it on seafronts and beaches rather than tucked away in the corner of southend outside someones home.

It's the kids that need protection. They are the most susceptible.

nebs - respect, keep doing what you're doing. the pro case is rice paper thin.

Nebs wrote:
So one doctor, who may or may not have been aware that you have a drug habit, and who was a friend of yours, told you something a while ago, and that is sufficient for you to dismiss the opinions of 1,000 other doctors. Dismiss, apart from the bits that agree with your opinions. If you think that badly of doctors, why did you post the link in support of your arguments at 9.40pm on Monday, and put DOCTORS in capital letters. Make your mind up. I take it you have notified the authorities that you have solved the problem of nature v nurture, and that peer pressure does not exist.

Nebs, if cannabis was as bad as you lot claim NO Doctors would sanction it's use in any way but "more than half believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would prescribe cannabis".
.
As you have difficulty grasping that I'll repeat it for you ... "more than half believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would prescribe cannabis".
.
Nature v nurture? Broadly speaking half of what "you" are comes from your genes, which means from your parents, and the other half is down to your environment, especially in those critical early years, and most of that is also down to the parents. Ok? And peer pressure? How kids deal with that and other external influences is also largely down to how the parents have brought them up. When I say "largely" and "most" that means virtually all, not just the majority (chance for you be pedantic?). This was self evident to me forty years ago, long before I knew psychologists confirm it, and as a parent I have always accepted that responsibility in full.
.
Surprisingly I agree with your last posting that "It's the kids that need protection. They are the most susceptible". True. And the best way to do that is firstly to tell them the TRUTH, not scare stories. Secondly, the law has been unable to stop this for forty years - if anything the problem with young teens is probably worse now than it has ever been - and the only solution that is proven to work is decriminalisation. In other countries where they have decriminalised the number of young smokers has gone DOWN! And if it's legal we can exert more control over who is allowed to have it and who isn't. You might not like it but why do you think so many people support decriminalisation and why have so many of the great and good signed the appeals in the Times & etc etc etc? Please, put your predjudices aside and think about it.

No asbo it's your grasp of the issue that is rice paper thin

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Don't care what it says, the Doctor I used to sail with told me they only had one single lecture on illegal drug use in seven years of training, unless they specialise, and most of that was about the more harmful drugs, heroin, crack etc. If they get more now that is a recent development. Doctors are just people and subject to the same biases and prejudices as everyone else, possibly worse as they dislike anything they think is "unhealthy".
.
I am not abusing you or "getting out of control", I'm just stating the facts but thanks for the laugh.
.
If you do not understand that the parents are ALWAYS to blame then you are either not a parent or not a good parent. It is true you muppet, think about it!

the truth didn't prevail. you're still posting. you told me on a previous blog that you hadn't bought anything you smoke since 2004. i think the above catologue of desperate self justification puts that little untruth to rest

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
No asbo it's your grasp of the issue that is rice paper thin

haha. youuu are number nine, doctors orders. i see you did manage to quit something successfully untruth - you've given up the high fives and the yeahs. can we have a special one off high five for shankovski and max-tool

Nebs wrote:

hobo316 wrote:
waste of time and police money. why not just legalise and then the kids would probably do it on seafronts and beaches rather than tucked away in the corner of southend outside someones home.

It's the kids that need protection. They are the most susceptible.

...what?
susceptible to what exactly?
its been a while since i picked up, but if the dealers are anything like they were 5 years ago, they wont be checking these kids IDs.
a shop would though...

wait a sec - isn't a £10 note the only id check you need these days?

asbo foundation wrote:
wait a sec - isn't a £10 note the only id check you need these days?

not when there is a personal fine of over £700 for anyone caught serving underage.
im 19 and i look it, i still get IDed most of the time.
clearly out of touch asbo.

i was wondering why we weren't being bombarded by that particular piece of scare propaganda recently.

asbo foundation wrote:
i was wondering why we weren't being bombarded by that particular piece of scare propaganda recently.

sorry, what 'piece of scare propaganda'??

just pick any cannabis news story and read the comments. odds on one of peter reynolds' monkeys will have posted that particular nugget. josef goebbels would be turning in his grave

asbo foundation wrote:
just pick any cannabis news story and read the comments. odds on one of peter reynolds' monkeys will have posted that particular nugget. josef goebbels would be turning in his grave

erm... never mind, i'll say it again :')
sorry, what 'particular nugget'??

hobo316 wrote:

asbo foundation wrote:
just pick any cannabis news story and read the comments. odds on one of peter reynolds' monkeys will have posted that particular nugget. josef goebbels would be turning in his grave

erm... never mind, i'll say it again :')
sorry, what 'particular nugget'??

sorry i try to avoid conversing with goldfish

:)
.
sorry that's my tourettes. no offence intended

haha ok then asbo.
and that was very mature.
i like how you act all high and mighty as if your intellect and maturity had shined through.
you failed to answer my question twice after spouting bull**** about pro legalisation 'propaganda'
clearly southend's finest.
i'll leave you alone now as im sure you have more important things to do and i dont deserve to leech off of your superiority.

hobo316 wrote:

asbo foundation wrote:
just pick any cannabis news story and read the comments. odds on one of peter reynolds' monkeys will have posted that particular nugget. josef goebbels would be turning in his grave

erm... never mind, i'll say it again :')
sorry, what 'particular nugget'??

the £10 note being the only id you need.

hobo316 wrote:
haha ok then asbo.
and that was very mature.
i like how you act all high and mighty as if your intellect and maturity had shined through.
you failed to answer my question twice after spouting bull**** about pro legalisation 'propaganda'
clearly southend's finest.
i'll leave you alone now as im sure you have more important things to do and i dont deserve to leech off of your superiority.

ok. can you polish the marble staircase and rod the pool out for me when you're done.

Jack Stanley Evans wrote:
Nebs,

According to hospital admission and NTA statistics, after adjusting for the number of regular users of each drug, you are six times more likely to experience mental health problems from alcohol use than from cannabis.

These are the FACTS. It seems you are just repeating alcohol lobby propaganda

Alcohol ABUSE can lead to mental problems (i.e. serious cases of alcoholism). This has been known for donkey's years (or is that donkies' years...). But I doubt you have to go to similar extremes to risk mental problems with cannabis. Let's have more specific information before you make such statements, please!
The problem with "average" cannabis use is that the mental/behavioural degradation that occurs is damaging to relationships and product life, but is not at a clinically diagnosable level.
You need to live with or around a cannabis user to see the subtle but nonetheless destructive effects it has on people and families.
Regards,
Smiffy22

focusonpeace wrote:
Nebs its propaganda that cannabis causes 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis'. If so, why does the home office allow GW pharma to grow tons of high grade cannabis in South England, as medicine? Its called sativex, and at 27% THC its strong. Basically liquid skunk for people who suffer from MS and so on. Funny how it doesnt mention 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis' on the list of side effects on the satviex bottle. Hmm i think some people are clouded by misinformation and propaganda, some people know the deal. simple :)

I think the law needs to be changed. Prohibition has allowed criminal gangs control over the cannabis market, gifting them money and power. It needs to be regulated by professionals working for the government. Legalization will ensure dealers slowly go out of business. Regulation would prevent contamination and would be age restricted preventing teenage use. Easier for kids to obtain cannabis than alcohol or cigarettes. FACT, as all a dealer needs to see is a £20 note. Also cannabis is medicine for many people, not simply a recreational drug. Its been known to help people suffering from a wide range of disparate diseases and pathological conditions, ranging from mood and anxiety disorders, movement disorders such as Parkinson’s and Huntington’s disease, neuropathic pain, multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury, to cancer, atherosclerosis, myocardial infarction, stroke, hypertension, glaucoma, obesitymetabolic syndrome, and osteoporosis, to name just a few. Legalization and regulation doesn't mean easily obtainable, it simply means safer access for adults who need it and want it, cannabis. An ancient plant, science has proven its therapeutic and medicinal value. Experts acknowledge its a much safer drug than alcohol or tobacco. Taxation, Legalization, Regulation but most importantly Education if you want to eliminate associated 'harms'.

Quoting the use of cannabis as a medicine as a reason for its legalisation is like saying that morphine is ok to take recreationally.
Regards,
Smiffy22

watchfulk wrote:

BIRLIS wrote:
I know enough people who have had their health and careers ruined by this rubbish to be sure that it turns normal people into wasters, losers and scum. Users who say that isn't so just won't see it, or just as likely can't see it because they are already part of the whole scummy underclass who are involved. Lock the idiots up, for their own good and everyone elses. It's amazing how people can turn their careers and lives around once they stop, provided there hasn't been too much health damage by that time. The arguments comparing drink and tobacco do not work either. They have their own problems, but that doesn't mean something else which ruins lives should be made legal too.

Excellent post..I speak from experience as someone very close to me got into smoking this stuff and it changed him to someone unrecognisable. Fortunately he received good support and advice and now no longer smokes it and his life is back on track. He suffered from panic attacks and severe depression while smoking it and believe me was singing it's praises saying he wasn't addicted etc. The difference in him is unbelievable since he has given up smoking it he has a purpose in life, feels he can now make plans for it and says he can now think straight. I agree smoking is bad for you as is alcohol but that although they have problems the problems caused by 'weed' far outweigh them. it can take over somone's life and those who are close to them.

Well said. I too have seen the paranoia and other problems from a light cannabis user.
If smoking were invented now, it would not be legalised, so I always cringe when I here pot smokers use that reasoning. As for alcohol, yes heavy use damages, but light use (as done by the majority of over 25s at least!) is not anywhere near as problematic as cannabis used at any level, in my view and observation.
Regards,
Smiffy22

focusonpeace wrote:

Truth Will Prevail wrote:

focusonpeace wrote:
Why do you perceive it as an argument? Its us telling you facts, and you dismissing them lol

Well said that man (or girl!)
.
Well said Bonky Badger too...
"I have a far bigger problem with drunks than I've ever had with toke chokers. People who are high just act a bit stupid (debatable as many, if not most smokers act perfectly normal after a smoke although it also depends how much they have smoked) but drunks are normally vicious, violent and beyond help.I imagine most toke chokers don't walk around afterwards wanting to fight everyone. Both are just generally ways of escaping reality so you'd have to ask yourself if drink/dope is the answer".
.
Just one point, most people all over the world use some sort drug whether it's opium, cannabis, alcohol, tobacco or just tea and coffee. Are you seriously saying you don't enjoy the odd pint of beer or cup of tea? (if you disagree with the tea bit try doing without it for a week then have a cup, gives you quite a hit!).
.
Seems to me that using different substances to make us feel good is part of the human condition therefore anyone who denies that, like our friend Asbo, may not be completely human! (suspected that for a long time!)

I must admit, i do love my tea!
In fact ,when i used to smoke cannabis i could go days without it with not much withdrawal ...but never a day without at least 1 cuppa tea.
All you have to you is look at a pub, and a coffee shop to sense a big difference in atmosphere.
Im not saying all pubs are violent places, but it does usually kick off in pubs, especially when alcohol can fuel that aggression. In a cannabis coffee shop there is no tension, no fights or arguments. In fact the style of conversation is no different to that of a normal coffee shop. Philosophy, religion, politics, sports, nature.
The attitude that all people who smoke or use cannabis automatically turn into smelly, incoherent losers is false, that stereotype was actually introduced by American media about Mexicans around the 1920's-30's..Since most of the 'Marijuana' came from South America. The attitude was, if you smoke cannabis you will end up like a Lazy, sweaty Mexican, obviously a racist dig at Latin communities. This stereotype is only able to survive by misinformed people continuing to discriminate. its wrong, because we dont call wine connoisseurs Boozers and smelly drunks, and we dont call people names if they enjoy a daily Tea, so why cannabis?
Because its been demonized for so long, for all the wrong reasons. Here is a link which explains why cannabis was made illegal in the first place.

http://www.otcmagic.
com/why-did-marijuan
a-become-illegal-in-
the-1st-place

An interesting read for curious people..

Lie around a cannabis user and see them degrade to an irritable, idle waste of space. It's a common enough tale from relatives of users. A user will never agree this of course. I guess they cannot judge themselves, and will not see what others see in their overall behaviour.
Yes, fights often kick off in pubs, from heavy drinkers. But this is exacerbated by society's unwillingness to lock away the offenders for many years. But that's a whole other talking point.
Regards,
Smiffy22

asbo foundation wrote:
there are 60,000 MS sufferers and "7mio" pot heads. i'll let you do the maths on that one.

Not entirely certain what point you were trying to make on that one, but I wonder whether you would think it safe to take other medicines prescribed to seriously ill people? No, didn't think so.
With certain irreversible medical conditions it is necessary to balance benefit against cost. This calculation is not the same for otherwise healthy people.
Regards,
Smiffy22

focusonpeace wrote:
Nebs its propaganda that cannabis causes 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis'. If so, why does the home office allow GW pharma to grow tons of high grade cannabis in South England, as medicine? Its called sativex, and at 27% THC its strong. Basically liquid skunk for people who suffer from MS and so on. Funny how it doesnt mention 'schizophrenia' and or 'Psychosis' on the list of side effects on the satviex bottle. Hmm i think some people are clouded by misinformation and propaganda, some people know the deal. simple :)

I think the law needs to be changed. Prohibition has allowed criminal gangs control over the cannabis market, gifting them money and power. It needs to be regulated by professionals working for the government. Legalization will ensure dealers slowly go out of business. Regulation would prevent contamination and would be age restricted preventing teenage use. Easier for kids to obtain cannabis than alcohol or cigarettes. FACT, as all a dealer needs to see is a £20 note. Also cannabis is medicine for many people, not simply a recreational drug. Its been known to help people suffering from a wide range of disparate diseases and pathological conditions, ranging from mood and anxiety disorders, movement disorders such as Parkinson’s and Huntington’s disease, neuropathic pain, multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injury, to cancer, atherosclerosis, myocardial infarction, stroke, hypertension, glaucoma, obesitymetabolic syndrome, and osteoporosis, to name just a few. Legalization and regulation doesn't mean easily obtainable, it simply means safer access for adults who need it and want it, cannabis. An ancient plant, science has proven its therapeutic and medicinal value. Experts acknowledge its a much safer drug than alcohol or tobacco. Taxation, Legalization, Regulation but most importantly Education if you want to eliminate associated 'harms'.

For seriously ill people, the benefits from taking a harmful substance have to be balanced against the damage that it does. This is a very simple principle, why on earth does the pro-cannabis lobby fail to understand this? Or is it simple dishonesty? As for the statement that "Experts acknowledge its a much safer drug than alcohol or tobacco", more dishonesty. It may be true that modest use of cannabis will cause less harm that drinking two bottles of whiskey a day, but the moderate use of cannabis is more harmful than the moderate use of alcohol. Compare like for like please!
Regards,
Smiffy22

Have you been taking drugs Smiffy? Moderate use of alcohol is not harmful? You are delusional and in denial.
.
It isn't working. It never has worked. And so long as it continues to be fought in its current form, the "war on drugs" will do little to curb the spread of illegal narcotics or prevent hundreds of thousands of people from continuing to lose their lives each year as a result of the international drug trade.
.
So says a panel of world leaders who called yesterday for the biggest shake-up of drug laws in half a century. "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world," declared the Global Commission on Drug Policy. "Fundamental reforms... are urgently needed."
.
The Commission, which counts the former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan along with former presidents of Brazil, Mexico and Colombia as members, believes governments must now experiment with "legal regulation of drugs." "This recommendation applies especially to cannabis," reads a major report it published in New York yesterday. "But we would also encourage other experiments in decriminalisation."
.
Ecstasy, which is currently considered a class-A substance, ought to be reclassified in line with medical opinion that it is far less dangerous than legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol, the report suggests. Users of narcotics should be offered education and treatment, rather than being incarcerated, it advises. And countries which insist on continuing a "law enforcement" approach to drug crime should focus resources on taking down high-level traffickers, rather than arresting everyday drug mules and street dealers.
.
Although the recommendations are regarded as a statement of the obvious by many experts, they fly in the face of the official policies of most Western nations. Their endorsement by the Global Commission is therefore likely to be highly controversial. However, campaigners for drug reform are hoping that yesterday's report may herald a shift in the way drug policy is debated by the international community.
.
The 24-page document notes that years of prohibition have resulted in a steady rise in the number of people regularly using drugs, which the UN currently estimates at around 250 million worldwide. Opiate use has grown by around 35 percent in the past decade, while world consumption of cocaine and cannabis has risen 27 and 8.5 percent respectively.
.
Current laws leave this growing industry in the hands of criminal gangs, resulting in spiralling violence from the slums of West Africa to swaths of Central and Latin America. In Mexico, a supposed government crackdown on drug gangs has resulted in 38,000 deaths in the past four and a half years.
.
The Commission, which also counts Paul Volcker, the former chairman of the US Federal Reserve, George Shultz, the former US Secretary of State, and Sir Richard Branson among its 19 members, says the UN should now lead an "urgent" rethink of global drug policies, based on scientific evidence rather than political expediency.
.
Citing the success of liberal drug policies in countries such as Portugal, Holland and Australia, it recommends taking money spent on costly law enforcement campaigns and investing it instead in preventive drug education and treatment programmes proved to curb addiction rates and prevent health problems among users.
.
"Overwhelming evidence from Europe, Canada and Australia now demonstrates the human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem," said co-author Ruth Dreifuss, the former Swiss president, at yesterday's launch of the report in New York. "These policies need to be adopted worldwide, with requisite changes to the international drug control conventions

can we mark the above post as spam?

Anyone who refuses to admit there are strong arguments for decriminalisation is allowing their prejudices to over-rule their brain. There is a name for people like that.
.
Have a nice day.

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Anyone who refuses to admit there are strong arguments for decriminalisation is allowing their prejudices to over-rule their brain. There is a name for people like that.
.
Have a nice day.

Anyone who refuses to admit there are strong arguments against decriminalisation is allowing their prejudices to over-rule their brain. There is a name for people like that. . Have a nice day.

Are the Chuckle Brothers back in Southend?

Alekhine wrote:
Are the Chuckle Brothers back in Southend?

Nope just beligerent pensioners with fossilised brains.
.
Sure there are arguments against legalisation Nebs but they are not as strong as the arguments FOR. Bottom line is that the history of drugs tells us that if we continue to try and control drugs with the law then things will only get worse. If that's OK with you then you just don't get it.

Nebs I have never denied there are problems with cannabis but you have to get them in perspective. Statistically young teenagers are SIX times more likely to develop mental health problems with alcohol as they are using cannabis, and that's corrected for frequency of use and dosage levels etc. I say again, anyone who refuses to admit there are strong arguments for decriminalisation of cannabis is allowing their prejudices to over-rule their brain. Does your brain work Nebs or has fossilisiation set in?

turn off the lights when you're done

hobo316 wrote:

Nebs wrote:

hobo316 wrote:
waste of time and police money. why not just legalise and then the kids would probably do it on seafronts and beaches rather than tucked away in the corner of southend outside someones home.

It's the kids that need protection. They are the most susceptible.

...what?
susceptible to what exactly?
its been a while since i picked up, but if the dealers are anything like they were 5 years ago, they wont be checking these kids IDs.
a shop would though...

Psychosis. 4 times more likely.
http://www.mentalhea
lthcare.org.uk/canna
bis

I can't reconcile your two statements that, if it is legalised the kids will do it on seafronts and beaches, and the suggestion they wont get any as shops would check kids ID's. You can't have it both ways.

Hobo's suggestion was not very sensible, obviously just want's to get the kids away from the houses. If it was legal the kids would stil get hold of it with fake IDs and 'helpful adults', just as they get hold of alcohol now, but it wouldn't be so easy for them and certainly wouldn't be 'on tap' like it is now.
.
Can you see the bigger picture yet Nebs, I notice you haven't responded to any of the points I made.

Truth Will Prevail wrote:
Hobo's suggestion was not very sensible, obviously just want's to get the kids away from the houses. If it was legal the kids would stil get hold of it with fake IDs and 'helpful adults', just as they get hold of alcohol now, but it wouldn't be so easy for them and certainly wouldn't be 'on tap' like it is now.
.
Can you see the bigger picture yet Nebs, I notice you haven't responded to any of the points I made.

You haven't responded, three times, to the point I made about the article that you used to support your argument. Remember the point. That two thirds of doctors don't support legalising cannabis.

Why are you avoiding this point and trying to say doctors are not experts?

As to the bigger picture. you are the one who can't see it. All you can see is that you are OK so legalise it. You don't see the problems it causes for those who are effected, the problems for their families and friends, the people who drive while under the influence of cannabis.

Now, what about those two thirds of doctors. The ones who have to deal with the problems. Don't you think that the fact that 8 ot of 10 would prescribe it (where the doctors are in control), but two thirds don't want it legalised (where the user is in control), tells you something.

I HAVE responded to your point Nebs, remember Doctors disapprove of anything that could affect health, they are health puritans by nature (and if you don't understand that you don't understand anything) and whilst most say they wouldn't legalise, "more than half believe the laws on cannabis are too strict and eight out of ten of them would prescribe cannabis". That says a lot. My own GP knows we smoke, even caught us once but he never says he disapproves, actually laughed when he caught us! So what do you think Doctors would say about alcohol if it had just been invented, they'd want it classified as a class A drug!
.
As for the other people affected by cannabis, again the numbers are far worse for alcohol, GO CHECK THE NUMBERS! The vast majority of smokers have NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER and I've known hundreds of smokers, in fact most of my generation are smokers. I say again if cannabis is so bad why isn't the NHS swamped by cannabis casualties? Again check the numbers, young teens are 6 times more likely to develop mental health problems with alcohol use than cannabis, it's true!
.
Btw driving under the influence of cannabis isn't the problem you think it is either, not that I'm encouraging it. Studies by NY Uni and others have revealed what all tokers know, that reaction times actually improve with low to medium doses, esp with experienced smokers. Reaction times only deteriorate with heavy doses. The opposite is true with alcohol, even small amounts degrade reaction times dramatically. Do you know how the Police catch cannabis drivers? They drive too carefully, observe all speed limits etc. It's true! Ask the Police!
.
Do you know anything at all about cannabis cos I think you are confusing cannabis with heroin, crack cocaine etc but these are all completely different substances with vastly different effects and dangers and most cannabis smokers would have nothing to do with them. Cannabis doesn't turn people into imbeciles you know, it doesn't dull the senses either (as most other drugs do), it enhances the senses, sight and vision becomes crystal clear. That's why so many artists and musicians use it and why we like it!
.
But no point trying to tell you any of this as you have made your mind up without actually knowing anything at all about cannabis beyond the scare stories and those ridiculous American propaganda films of the 50s and 60s. You are completely prejudiced and not even trying to understand the truth. No point talking to people like you, your attitude is typical of the over 65's who have no experience of cannabis beyond the tabloids and are too fixed in their ways to reassess their opinions. Am I right or am i right?

Why don't you ask your doctor to write you a letter confirming that he approves of your habit.

A few posts back you were telling us doctors are not experts and get no training. Then you want us to rely on the fact that 8 out of 10 doctors would prescribe it, as a reason for legalising it, while ignoring the fact that two thirds of doctors would not want to see it legalised. You are missing the difference of who is in control of the substance in each of these two situations.

I don't dispute alcohol is a problem. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As for the police catching cannabis drivers, it's nice to hear they can spot them. Pretty soon it will be as illegal as drink driving. Reading your opinion on the matter people could be forgiven for thinking that, far from being illegal, it should be made compulsory for eveyone to smoke cannabis before driving. Still, a fixed fine and 3 points for all the drug drivers should see a few less cars on the road and a chunk off the national debt.

Thanks for your input about heroin and cocaine. Once again you make assumptions about me that are wholly untrue.

If you think I am prejudiced because I have looked at both sides of the argument and formed an opinion, then so be it. I listen to the experts who have had the training and deal with the fallout on a daily basis. People like this http://www.mentalhea
lthcare.org.uk/peopl
e_involved_in_creati
ng_this_site
I value their informed opinion. Do you think they are pensioners who all got their training from 1950's tabloid newspapers, or do you think they might make a valid contribution to the debate.

One third of Doctors would want it legalised, that is saying a lot for health puritans. Do you honestly think they would say the same about heroin, cocaine etc?
.
Driving under the influence of drugs is illegal now but the Police rarely catch smokers driving because most drive so carefully. Fact.

Did you actually read the article before you sent the link? It says repeatedly that it is primarily the young who at risk, and not much of a risk at that. Look for the numbers, not assertions.
.
It also says "the vast majority of cannabis users do not become unwell, just as the majority of people who drink alcohol in moderation never come to harm". OK? Now try reading the stats!
.
"I have looked at both sides of the argument and formed an opinion". Absolute rubbish. If you had truly done that you would be agreeing with Paul McCartney, Richard Branson, Khofi Annan, the UN and the governments of Holland, Portugal, Canada, Australia et al that the argument for legalisation is stronger than the argument for not legalising.
.
Either you know a lot more about this subject than Paul McCartney, Richard Branson, Khofi Annan, the UN and the governments of Holland, Portugal, Canada, Australia et al or you are running on prejudice, not brains.
.
The war on drugs is LOST!
It isn't working. It never has worked. And so long as it continues to be fought in its current form, the "war on drugs" will do little to curb the spread of illegal narcotics or prevent hundreds of thousands of people from continuing to lose their lives each year as a result of the international drug trade.
.
So says a panel of world leaders who called yesterday for the biggest shake-up of drug laws in half a century. "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world," declared the Global Commission on Drug Policy. "Fundamental reforms... are urgently needed."
.
The Commission, which counts the former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan along with former presidents of Brazil, Mexico and Colombia as members, believes governments must now experiment with "legal regulation of drugs." "This recommendation applies ESPECIALLY TO CANNABIS," reads a major report it published in New York yesterday. "But we would also encourage other experiments in decriminalisation."
.
Ecstasy, which is currently considered a class-A substance, ought to be reclassified in line with medical opinion that it is far less dangerous than legal drugs such as nicotine and alcohol, the report suggests. Users of narcotics should be offered education and treatment, rather than being incarcerated, it advises. And countries which insist on continuing a "law enforcement" approach to drug crime should focus resources on taking down high-level traffickers, rather than arresting everyday drug mules and street dealers.
.
Although the recommendations are regarded as a statement of the obvious by many experts, they fly in the face of the official policies of most Western nations. Their endorsement by the Global Commission is therefore likely to be highly controversial. However, campaigners for drug reform are hoping that yesterday's report may herald a shift in the way drug policy is debated by the international community.
.
The 24-page document notes that years of prohibition have resulted in a steady rise in the number of people regularly using drugs, which the UN currently estimates at around 250 million worldwide. Opiate use has grown by around 35 percent in the past decade, while world consumption of cocaine and cannabis has risen 27 and 8.5 percent respectively.
.
Current laws leave this growing industry in the hands of criminal gangs, resulting in spiralling violence from the slums of West Africa to swaths of Central and Latin America. In Mexico, a supposed government crackdown on drug gangs has resulted in 38,000 deaths in the past four and a half years.
.
The Commission, which also counts Paul Volcker, the former chairman of the US Federal Reserve, George Shultz, the former US Secretary of State, and Sir Richard Branson among its 19 members, says the UN should now lead an "urgent" rethink of global drug policies, based on scientific evidence rather than political expediency.
.
Citing the success of liberal drug policies in countries such as Portugal, Holland and Australia, it recommends taking money spent on costly law enforcement campaigns and investing it instead in preventive drug education and treatment programmes proved to curb addiction rates and prevent health problems among users.
.
"Overwhelming evidence from Europe, Canada and Australia now demonstrates the human and social benefits of treating drug addiction as a health rather than criminal justice problem," said co-author Ruth Dreifuss, the former Swiss president, at yesterday's launch of the report in New York. "These policies need to be adopted worldwide, with requisite changes to the international drug control conventions”

Note "the VAST majority of cannabis users do not become unwell, just as the majority of people who drink alcohol in moderation never come to harm".
.
VAST majority v majority, did you spot that?