Network Rail failed to store explosives that blinded Leigh teen (From Southend Standard)
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Network Rail failed to store explosives that blinded Leigh teen
6:10pm Wednesday 27th February 2013 in News By David Trayner
Harvey Rowe, 16, who blinded himself with rail detonators he found at a Network Rail depot in Leigh
NETWORK Rail has been rapped for its storage of explosives after a teenage boy blinded himself with detonators he accessed readily at a depot in Leigh.
An Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) investigation, launched after Harvey Rowe, 16, walked through a hole in the fence and found the explosives unsecured in a skip, found failures in the control of detonator storage of at a number of Network Rail sites in Essex.
Inspectors found evidence of poor record keeping and detonators being stored in unsuitable locations, a report released this afternoon, Wednesday, February 27, revealed.
Harvey, of Herschell Road, Leigh, and a 17-year-old were reprimanded and an 18-year-old cautioned for theft in November.
The teen, wanting the detonator box to store BMX tools, tipped its contents onto a pile of unlit rubbish they were using to build a fire without knowing they were explosives.
They exploded when the fire was lit, sending splinters into Harvey’s right eye.
ORR failed to reveal the other Essex sites where safety failures were found.
A ORR spokesperson said: “ORR has now completed its investigation into the storage and disposal of explosives at Network Rail’s premises, which highlighted failures in the control of detonator storage of at a number of sites in Essex.
“ORR inspectors found evidence of poor record keeping, and examples of detonators being stored in unsuitable locations.
“At ORR’s request, Network Rail has taken immediate action to rectify these failings and ensure it complies with legal requirements to protect the safety of workers and members of the public.
“At this time, the regulator will not take further enforcement action, however ORR inspectors will closely monitor safety management arrangements at Network Rail’s depots and will not hesitate to take action if further failings are identified.”
A Network Rail spokesperson said: “Safety is our number one priority. We run one of the safest railways in Europe and incidents such as these are extremely rare.
“After this incident we took immediate action to fix the issues found by the Office of Rail Regulation to improve storage, record keeping and security of our equipment.”
Comments(67)
Carnabackable
says...
5:57pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
6:07pm Wed 27 Feb 13
John T Pharro
says...
6:19pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Joe Wildman-Clark wrote:Stupid.
So starting a bonfire with wood that is not yours on land you have no right to be on is what...
tepluap
says...
6:53pm Wed 27 Feb 13
How long before he/parents make a claim for damages?
ShrimperSS0
says...
7:17pm Wed 27 Feb 13
supershrimper
says...
7:25pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
7:51pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Quote the Echo:
"The teen, wanting the detonator box to store BMX tools, tipped its contents onto a pile of unlit rubbish they were using to build a firewithout knowing they were explosives."
Apart from trespassing on the railway, there is:
Theft: Taking the box even if it is on a skip is theft, the box was the property of Network Rail even if it was on a skip, Once the skip is lifted it becomes the property of the skip company, at no time is it "fair game"
Arson: To stockpile rubbish/wood that is not yours on land you have no right to be on for the purpose of setting fire to can be classed as arson, or criminal damage as you are willfully damaging/destroying articles that are not yours to do so.
stopmoaning1
says...
8:14pm Wed 27 Feb 13
stopmoaning1
says...
8:16pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Kursaal76
says...
8:43pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Dan-Hockley
says...
9:02pm Wed 27 Feb 13
This little tyke thought it was fine to go on to private land, steal, light and fire and then goes boo-hoo when his little jaunt literally blows up in his face.
Quite frankly, I think he got the punishment he deserves ... and as for trying to apportion blame to Network Rail, that is just beyond madness!
DogsMessInLeigh
says...
9:10pm Wed 27 Feb 13
"Theft Act 1978
Theft (Amendment) Act 1996
Basic definition of theft
1.--
(1) A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and 'thief' and 'steal' shall be construed accordingly."
seeing as it was being thrown out by them he wouldn't have been depriving them of it really.
he still should shoulder the blame mind you messing around on private property making fires and stuff.
stopmoaning1
says...
10:10pm Wed 27 Feb 13
onorris24
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10:16pm Wed 27 Feb 13
disenfranchisedpast
says...
10:32pm Wed 27 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:And he SHOULD NOT have
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
Entered private land
Stolen the explosives
Built a fire on private land
Teens can be teens and they can do what they want, but they have to live with the consequences of STUPID actions.
That said hindsight is 20/20........in most cases.
stopmoaning1
says...
10:33pm Wed 27 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:But we didn't go onto somebody elses private land and take stuff that belonged to somebody else.
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
Simples!
DogsMessInLeigh
says...
10:47pm Wed 27 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:so what did happen then...seeing as he told you, so you tell us then.
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
stupid..?...us commenting on the story...? we was not the ones trespassing, emptying explosive devices onto a fire that was lit when it shouldn't have been .....now think about it, thats stupid and a bit silly isn't it.
http://www.macadamiacreative.com
says...
11:02pm Wed 27 Feb 13
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
11:08pm Wed 27 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:teens do as they want...
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
That is the BIG problem and if he had not been so very very stupid to break the law by trasepassing on to the railway, steal a box that was not his to take and then set a fire than he got what deserved.
So what is the story of what "actually" happened,
Was he trespassing?
Did he take something that was not his to take?
Did he and his mate start a fire?
Are any of the above criminal offences?
Prehaps set up a Not Quite Darwin Award.
Your "mate" is a Stupid Numpty.
pudsey
says...
6:23am Thu 28 Feb 13
A Dermot
says...
7:26am Thu 28 Feb 13
Network Rail being castigated for poor record keeping and storing explosives in unsecured locations.
So the explosives weren't in one of their containers that was either unlocked or had its lock smashed off and not dumped in a skip and because of their poor record keeping they are unable to prove or disprove the claim they were left in a skip?
Kids go to container smash off lock and steel metal box and throw detonators on fire to see results?
Becomes find metal box in skip and starts fire, chucks contents on fire - 'BANG'.
Because of poor records Network Rail unable to prove the correct version of events.
Does anybody see a compensation claim coming.
Woodenspoon
says...
7:45am Thu 28 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:onorris24, do you really think that the one boy will tell you the full truth and nothing but the truth??? Don't be so stupid all your life!! Take 5 mins to think about it, before you spout off in public. They will tell you what they want you to hear, to make you believe their side of the story. They should not have been there, should not have entered private property, should not have stolen items, they should not have started a fire, End Of Story!!!
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
As for your quote of teenagers are teenagers and will do as they want, well that is where you and all teenagers are wrong. They can not just do as they want, they still have laws, rules etc to live by and adhere to.
Just because they can't be tried or imprisoned as an adult does not mean they can still do it and get away with it until such time as they are.
They knew exactly what the were doing and what they were dealing with. There would have been warnings on the explosives stating that they were explosives, do not place in a fire etc, just as there are on deodorant cans and anything else that can or may explode in a fire.
Some bombs and fireworks do not explode or light up at the time that they are designed to, does not mean it suddenly ok to put them on a fire 2 weeks later and expect them not to suddenly do so.
The fact that you also have to use such language shows the rest of us your level of knowledge and how low down it is too. So unless you are now wiling to tell us their side of the story, I suggest you slide back off to your hole and shut up.
Bosniavet
says...
7:48am Thu 28 Feb 13
Yes, it's unfortunate that Harvey Rowe was injured, but it was his own fault at the end of the day, a very hard lesson, but one I don't think he'll forget in a hurry.
tepluap
says...
8:31am Thu 28 Feb 13
Rayleigh Reader
says...
8:42am Thu 28 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:Why don't you and your silly mates go and trespass on the railway lines, and sit on the tracks quietly waiting for a train, seeing as you can do waht ever you want to do!
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
That way it might put an end to your silly ways!
With an attitude like yours "thieving and trespassing" must be the norm!
AndyBSG
says...
10:09am Thu 28 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:"Teens will be teens and will do what they want"
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
It's exactly this sort of attitude that shows what's wrong with kids today due to the complete lack of discipline, punishment or accountability for their actions.
He trespassed, stole and lit a fire and as a result of that he lost his site in one eye.
Harsh? Maybe but I suspect it will teach him a lesson he never forgets and serve as a warning to others... That is until he sticks in a compensation claim and gets a big wad of cash, then it'll just show him and all his mates that crime does pay.
Beth the original one
says...
12:08pm Thu 28 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:teens will be teens and do what they want.
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
hmmmm guess what, i was a teen once, but i guess my mum and dad were wierd coz they taught me not to trespass on land that didnt belong to me and not to take things without permission that wasnt mine. They told me that whatever i did had consequences.
Why is it always someone elses fault when a wrongdoer doing wrong gets hurt.
Noteworthy
says...
12:35pm Thu 28 Feb 13
onorris24 wrote:Sounds like one of these attention seeking posts you often read on facebook, you know, the ones that tell the reader that the poster is having an issue, but they don't then expand on it...
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
Of course, if you are not simply attention seeking, then please go ahead and fill us in on your side of the story...
definitelymaybe
says...
2:29pm Thu 28 Feb 13
jolllyboy
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2:38pm Thu 28 Feb 13
Beth the original one
says...
2:39pm Thu 28 Feb 13
definitelymaybe wrote:so its ok to carry out petty crime and if we, law abiding citizens, dont agree with that, then we are **** by your definition.
Hello morons. No it isn't a burglary as it isn't a premises by definition. It's a theft and a civil trespass. In criminal justice terms a very low level theft - for which him and his mates have been dealt with accordingly. I doubt under the circumstances that Network Rail would want to pursue the civil trespass. And no he absolutely did not "deserve" to lose the sight in his eye for such a petty misdemeanour and that's where the criticism lies. If you store and throw away explosives best you ensure that are acting in the interests of public safety and that is regardless of whether someone commits a petty criminal offence. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a pr1ck. Hands up please. It seems we have a list to choose from...
In my book no crime is ok and if that makes me a **** then so be it.
I agree that losing your sight is a bit extreme, but hey his criminal actions carried a price and he paid the consequences
the sooner we bring in zero tolerance the better, oh and get rid of human rights brigade for the criminals, they do a crime they lose their rights to human rights, they belong to the innocent victims
stopmoaning1
says...
2:50pm Thu 28 Feb 13
definitelymaybe wrote:Network Rail are entitled to keep any items in their own yard, which is private property without having to worry that some oik will enter illegally and steal items.
Hello morons. No it isn't a burglary as it isn't a premises by definition. It's a theft and a civil trespass. In criminal justice terms a very low level theft - for which him and his mates have been dealt with accordingly. I doubt under the circumstances that Network Rail would want to pursue the civil trespass. And no he absolutely did not "deserve" to lose the sight in his eye for such a petty misdemeanour and that's where the criticism lies. If you store and throw away explosives best you ensure that are acting in the interests of public safety and that is regardless of whether someone commits a petty criminal offence. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a pr1ck. Hands up please. It seems we have a list to choose from...
By your logic, if you stole my car and injured yourself in an accident because the brakes didn’t work, that would be my fault.
This attitude is the very reason crime and anti social behaviour is on the increase. Youths who think they can do exactly as they please and it’s somebody else’s fault. All supported it seems by parents, or in most cases with missing fathers, other ‘adult’ role models
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
4:14pm Thu 28 Feb 13
definitelymaybe wrote:Nobody said burglary they said theft.
Hello morons. No it isn't a burglary as it isn't a premises by definition. It's a theft and a civil trespass. In criminal justice terms a very low level theft - for which him and his mates have been dealt with accordingly. I doubt under the circumstances that Network Rail would want to pursue the civil trespass. And no he absolutely did not "deserve" to lose the sight in his eye for such a petty misdemeanour and that's where the criticism lies. If you store and throw away explosives best you ensure that are acting in the interests of public safety and that is regardless of whether someone commits a petty criminal offence. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a pr1ck. Hands up please. It seems we have a list to choose from...
What about setting fire to the wood, that is arson/criminal damage.
Through sheer stupidity this idiot lost an eye, I have ZERO sympathy for him, a slap on the wrist is not enough, they should have been delt with much more harshly to set an example to others.
Theft is theft a crime perpetrated by those that fully deserve what happens during the execution of that act.
Stupid boy do stupid thing. FACT
Thekingofsouthend
says...
4:20pm Thu 28 Feb 13
It really isn't his fault, he also told me if the council had of finished the A13 in time, he would have been down there playing with the traffic instead.
So, definitely not the kids fault, he also told me that if there were less cars parked on the cyclepaths down the seafront he would have been cycling with Shoebury Cyclist instead.
So really the only people we have got to blame here is the following, in no particular order, Labour, Tories, The EU, Bulgarians, Alastair Welch, jayman, Easyjet, SKIPP, Dale Farm, Network Rail, Thomas Edison, UKIP, SBC and Postman Pat.
Now wheres that boys compo.....
stopmoaning1
says...
4:27pm Thu 28 Feb 13
Thekingofsouthend wrote:Ha ha, I wondr how many people will only get as far as the first two lines before starting their rant.
I actually know the kid, and he told me that Network Rail dared him to do it, and Network Rail bullied him into doing it.
It really isn't his fault, he also told me if the council had of finished the A13 in time, he would have been down there playing with the traffic instead.
So, definitely not the kids fault, he also told me that if there were less cars parked on the cyclepaths down the seafront he would have been cycling with Shoebury Cyclist instead.
So really the only people we have got to blame here is the following, in no particular order, Labour, Tories, The EU, Bulgarians, Alastair Welch, jayman, Easyjet, SKIPP, Dale Farm, Network Rail, Thomas Edison, UKIP, SBC and Postman Pat.
Now wheres that boys compo.....
Joe Wildman-Clark
says...
6:27pm Thu 28 Feb 13
stopmoaning1 wrote:HOW DARE YOU how very dare you, this is not a funny comment you have posted.
Thekingofsouthend wrote:Ha ha, I wondr how many people will only get as far as the first two lines before starting their rant.
I actually know the kid, and he told me that Network Rail dared him to do it, and Network Rail bullied him into doing it.
It really isn't his fault, he also told me if the council had of finished the A13 in time, he would have been down there playing with the traffic instead.
So, definitely not the kids fault, he also told me that if there were less cars parked on the cyclepaths down the seafront he would have been cycling with Shoebury Cyclist instead.
So really the only people we have got to blame here is the following, in no particular order, Labour, Tories, The EU, Bulgarians, Alastair Welch, jayman, Easyjet, SKIPP, Dale Farm, Network Rail, Thomas Edison, UKIP, SBC and Postman Pat.
Now wheres that boys compo.....
It's much more of a side splitting head falling off pant wettingly embarrassing yourself laughing out loud on the train comment!
Well done, ;)
Carnabackable
says...
7:35pm Thu 28 Feb 13
definitelymaybe wrote:Good evening Moron, Burlary, entering a private locality, without prior prmission, as well as trespass on railway property, theft by finding (taking from a skip), on private land, arson (intensionally) setting fire to, something you do not own, on private/other land.
Hello morons. No it isn't a burglary as it isn't a premises by definition. It's a theft and a civil trespass. In criminal justice terms a very low level theft - for which him and his mates have been dealt with accordingly. I doubt under the circumstances that Network Rail would want to pursue the civil trespass. And no he absolutely did not "deserve" to lose the sight in his eye for such a petty misdemeanour and that's where the criticism lies. If you store and throw away explosives best you ensure that are acting in the interests of public safety and that is regardless of whether someone commits a petty criminal offence. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a pr1ck. Hands up please. It seems we have a list to choose from...
The list goes on, whatever did the parents teach this lad, that it's ok to help yourself? do as you like, without being held accountable.
DogsMessInLeigh
says...
8:41pm Thu 28 Feb 13
sadly he will be reminded of the whole thing for the rest of his life, some sympathy yes of course...but..
stopmoaning1
says...
9:58pm Thu 28 Feb 13
Canvey van
says...
9:22am Fri 1 Mar 13
We all know that he is going to get compensation and let's be honest Network Rail have fallen short in the method in which they have dealt with the expslosives, but I believe justice has been served up by karma already.
He might end up with some cash, but that will not last for ever, but he ain't never getting his eye sight back and I am sure everytime he looks in the mirror it will serve as a reminder of right from wrong, it a shame the lads lost his eye sight really because it would have been less painful if his parents had taught him that.
Letmetryagain
says...
5:33pm Fri 1 Mar 13
onorris24 wrote:You've had your laugh, now tell us this is a wind up.
You really don't know what really happened, I know one of they boys mentioned in the article and he has told me what happened, so I suggest you all shut the **** up and get on with your own lives. Network rail SHOULD NOT have left explosives in a skip in an area that, yes admittedly was in private land, that could be accessed easily. Teens will be teens and will do what they want. You are all silly and do not know the story of what actually happened and it's irritating because you are all SO **** stupid.
It just has to be.....
I hate the police
says...
12:51pm Sat 2 Mar 13
stopmoaning1
says...
3:49pm Sat 2 Mar 13
I hate the police wrote:Well let's start with fact number one. THERE IS NO FURTHER ACTION BEING TAKEN AGAINST THIS KID. That was complete ages ago when he received his police caution. keep up!
As a 21 year old myself, I can say that I have done stupid things and still do at times. But I guess this kid payed the ultimate price. I think no further action should be taken against this kid and his mates as enough damage has already been done. And If he can get a compensation claim, good luck to him. I personally think that they were wrong storing explosives, when it is clearly within the publics reach even if it is trespassing.
Fact number two. Network Rail did not force him to enter in to their private yard, steal items from within that yard and then set fire to them. NO COMPENSATION should be awarded.
Using your own logic, if somebody stole your car and injured themselves because the brakes didn’t work, you would be more than happy to say to the thief “sorry about that, my fault, please sue me, I’ll be happy to pay you some compensation”
Anybody else think I hate the police is BoyRacer1991?
pendulum
says...
6:42am Mon 4 Mar 13
celiaw
says...
4:15pm Mon 4 Mar 13
Network Rail were to blame their premises were not secure and had not been for a number of years and should have been given they had explosives on site which were not stored in an appropriate way so were against health and safety at work for all the network rail staff.
Parenting skills have nothing to do with this and banding children into particular groups and calling them names is inappropraite behaviour.
I bet many of you here have committed something your not proud of and one mistake has affected this childs life forever - he certainly will never forget.
So before you go throwing your two a penny negative comments have a thought for the people who have been affected.
crash helmet
says...
4:30pm Mon 4 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:The problem many people seem to be having is recognising there are 2 sets of circumstances here:
Get real people! a child has lost his sight and could have well lost his life.
Network Rail were to blame their premises were not secure and had not been for a number of years and should have been given they had explosives on site which were not stored in an appropriate way so were against health and safety at work for all the network rail staff.
Parenting skills have nothing to do with this and banding children into particular groups and calling them names is inappropraite behaviour.
I bet many of you here have committed something your not proud of and one mistake has affected this childs life forever - he certainly will never forget.
So before you go throwing your two a penny negative comments have a thought for the people who have been affected.
1. This guy and his friends sneak onto basically an industrial site and start rooting around. He finds a DETONATOR box in a skip and decides he wants to keep the box, so he empties the contents of the DETONATOR box onto a pile of rubbish that they are going to set on fire. Now, if you were to pick up a box labeled DETONATORS and emptied the contents onto the ground and then set fire to them, I will sympathise but still think you are an idiot.
2. Network rail did not store EXPLOSIVES correctly, instead disposing of them into a skip with other assorted rubbish. This is unacceptable. If these had detonated when the skip operator was unloading, or when another member of staff was tossing something else into the skip, they would be held rightly accountable, and indeed could be held accountable in this case. Improper storage and disposal of explosives trumps trespassing I fear; especially since trespassing is a civil matter and and the latter probably isn't.
It doesn't stop this kid from being an idiot though, and parenting skills probably do come into this somewhere along the line.
Network rail
A Pedant
says...
4:43pm Mon 4 Mar 13
Thieving toe-rag failed to show common sense while tresspassing on Network Rail property
stopmoaning1
says...
4:49pm Mon 4 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:Get real? Really? Their premises did not need to be secure. They should be entitled to think that as it is a PRIVATE YARD, people would know that it would have been WRONG to enter that yard and take items from within it.
Get real people! a child has lost his sight and could have well lost his life.
Network Rail were to blame their premises were not secure and had not been for a number of years and should have been given they had explosives on site which were not stored in an appropriate way so were against health and safety at work for all the network rail staff.
Parenting skills have nothing to do with this and banding children into particular groups and calling them names is inappropraite behaviour.
I bet many of you here have committed something your not proud of and one mistake has affected this childs life forever - he certainly will never forget.
So before you go throwing your two a penny negative comments have a thought for the people who have been affected.
It really is a simple right and wrong argument.
If you left a window open in your home, or left your garden shed open, you would not expect anybody to enter and take items from inside.
Parenting skills have EVERYTHING to do with this. With having children goes the responsibility of teaching the little darlings basic social skills, which include knowing right from wrong.
Beth the original one
says...
8:12am Tue 5 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:what do you mean parenting skills have nothing to do with this? they have EVERYTHING to do with it. the parents did not teach their children to respect other peoples property as the child trespass on private property, stole a box that clearly did not belong the him, set fire to the contents and other rubbish (arson) I really hope you are not a parent as your child would stand no chance of learning right from wrong as you clearly have the attitude that the responsibility for good or bad behaviour lies with people other than the parent.
Get real people! a child has lost his sight and could have well lost his life.
Network Rail were to blame their premises were not secure and had not been for a number of years and should have been given they had explosives on site which were not stored in an appropriate way so were against health and safety at work for all the network rail staff.
Parenting skills have nothing to do with this and banding children into particular groups and calling them names is inappropraite behaviour.
I bet many of you here have committed something your not proud of and one mistake has affected this childs life forever - he certainly will never forget.
So before you go throwing your two a penny negative comments have a thought for the people who have been affected.
celiaw
says...
9:31am Tue 5 Mar 13
What is good parenting, we all hold different values - we hope that children abide by rules, respect others and be polite etc, but children are children and when you cannot be with them 24-7. Even adults who hold postitions of trust who we vote in to represent us dont follow these rules do they! look at the MP's, the Pope, and people in the church, and the police - what do you say to them! its bad parenting!
This situation would have been completely different if a member of network rail staff member or any other visitor to the site in question had been injured in this way through this negligence.
A Pedant
says...
9:35am Tue 5 Mar 13
It is more than clear form the respodents' comments that they do indeed have children (as have I). Agreed you can not keep an eye on the 24/7, however, I would hope and expect most parents to instill sufficient discipline and common sense into their children to ensure that 'children being children' does not stretch to tresspassing, theft and arson.
Beth the original one
says...
10:02am Tue 5 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:yes i do have 2 children, tho i admit they are both grown up now and considered adults. However i taught my kids that their actions have consequences and never once did i think that whatever they did was someone elses fault. i.e. if they trespassed and got hurt in the process i didnt think oh its their fault they didnt put their fence in good order etc. If they got into trouble, they got punished twice, once from the person who they "offended" and once from me, they soon learnt, it was easier to respect other peoples property. I agree kids will be kids,etc but stop putting the blame on other people for your kids shortcomings, if they do wrong, its your responsibility to find out why and rectify it, not the victim. You say we all hold different values, i agree, its just a shame that some peoples values seem to be in the gutter
Do any of you who have commented my post have children - I think not!
What is good parenting, we all hold different values - we hope that children abide by rules, respect others and be polite etc, but children are children and when you cannot be with them 24-7. Even adults who hold postitions of trust who we vote in to represent us dont follow these rules do they! look at the MP's, the Pope, and people in the church, and the police - what do you say to them! its bad parenting!
This situation would have been completely different if a member of network rail staff member or any other visitor to the site in question had been injured in this way through this negligence.
stopmoaning1
says...
10:11am Tue 5 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:What a ridiculous comment, of course I have children and they know right from wrong because that’s what we taught them. As a result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces. I have said previously, if the lad and his supporters actually showed some kind of remorse and accepted that what HE did was actually wrong instead of trying to blame somebody else, there may be a bit more sympathy.
Do any of you who have commented my post have children - I think not!
What is good parenting, we all hold different values - we hope that children abide by rules, respect others and be polite etc, but children are children and when you cannot be with them 24-7. Even adults who hold postitions of trust who we vote in to represent us dont follow these rules do they! look at the MP's, the Pope, and people in the church, and the police - what do you say to them! its bad parenting!
This situation would have been completely different if a member of network rail staff member or any other visitor to the site in question had been injured in this way through this negligence.
And of course the situation would have been different if a visitor or Network Rail staff member were injured as a result of the negligence. The reasons why are in your own comment. Because they would be a visitor or employee ENTITLED to be on the premises.
If you were to come to my place of work as a visitor, entitled to be on the premises and were injured, you would of course be entitled to claim compensation. If however you waited until we were closed and broke in and injured yourself, you wouldn’t.
If you injure yourself at your own place of work, again you may well be entitled to claim compensation. However, if your workplace was closed and you decided to break in and take items from inside and were injured doing so, you wouldn’t.
My apologies to other readers for my long post, but it seems that the situation does need to be explained very carefully and in tiny steps to some people.
celiaw
says...
3:09pm Tue 5 Mar 13
As you kindly point out in your post - as result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces, that obviously does not reflect through your own actions - as you have made clear in your concluding point - does it.
None of this would have happened if the site in question was secure and the hazardous materials were stored properly - end of story.
A Pedant
says...
3:40pm Tue 5 Mar 13
You just don't get it, do you? While Network Rail should clearly have ensured the detonators etc were secure, the fact remains that had this silly boy not been tresspassing, thieving and wilfully setting fire to things THEN AND ONLY THEN would none of this happened. End of story.
Beth the original one
says...
4:02pm Tue 5 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:actually none of this would have happened if the boy in question hadnt of trespassed, carried out a theft and topped it off with arson - end of story
Thanks for explaining in tiny steps for me Stopmoaning 1,
As you kindly point out in your post - as result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces, that obviously does not reflect through your own actions - as you have made clear in your concluding point - does it.
None of this would have happened if the site in question was secure and the hazardous materials were stored properly - end of story.
stopmoaning1
says...
4:38pm Tue 5 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:Wow, is it me or what? I’ve got such a headache where I keep banging it against a brick wall.
Thanks for explaining in tiny steps for me Stopmoaning 1,
As you kindly point out in your post - as result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces, that obviously does not reflect through your own actions - as you have made clear in your concluding point - does it.
None of this would have happened if the site in question was secure and the hazardous materials were stored properly - end of story.
The very simple fact of the matter is that none of this would have happened if the lad had not decided to break the law by entering private premises, stealing items from within those premises and then setting fire to them.
How much more plain and simple can it be?
RobertFS
says...
6:32pm Tue 5 Mar 13
ShrimperSS0 wrote:Agreed!
I agree. Trespass, burglary, criminal damage... I'm sorry I have no sympathy for him. Yes Network Rail may've been at fault but at the end of the day, failures were exposed only after the above offences had been committed.
Phil McCrakin
says...
8:50am Wed 6 Mar 13
HadleighBoy
says...
12:45pm Wed 6 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:So celiaw if a someone breaks into your house, drinks some bleach out of a bottle left on your kitchen worktop you will say that is your fault?
Thanks for explaining in tiny steps for me Stopmoaning 1, As you kindly point out in your post - as result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces, that obviously does not reflect through your own actions - as you have made clear in your concluding point - does it. None of this would have happened if the site in question was secure and the hazardous materials were stored properly - end of story.
Beth the original one
says...
12:57pm Wed 6 Mar 13
HadleighBoy wrote:dont be silly Hadleighboy, that is completely different. Besides Celiaw is so perfect she wouldnt do anything so daft as being human. eeks must dash just remembered i have left a bottle of windolene on worktop in my utility room i must go immediately and lock it away in a safe
celiaw wrote:So celiaw if a someone breaks into your house, drinks some bleach out of a bottle left on your kitchen worktop you will say that is your fault?
Thanks for explaining in tiny steps for me Stopmoaning 1, As you kindly point out in your post - as result of their upbringing, they are well rounded polite, law abiding children with good social skills and graces, that obviously does not reflect through your own actions - as you have made clear in your concluding point - does it. None of this would have happened if the site in question was secure and the hazardous materials were stored properly - end of story.
uncle_jarvis
says...
2:58pm Wed 6 Mar 13
Is that the best story they could come up with??!
(stopmoaning1 - agreed!)
DogsMessInLeigh
says...
3:29pm Wed 6 Mar 13
celiaw wrote:You think wrong....and MP's the Pope and the Police are grown ups and not 16 year olds and i can't see the pope making a camp fire with his skating buddys somehow....
Do any of you who have commented my post have children - I think not!
What is good parenting, we all hold different values - we hope that children abide by rules, respect others and be polite etc, but children are children and when you cannot be with them 24-7. Even adults who hold postitions of trust who we vote in to represent us dont follow these rules do they! look at the MP's, the Pope, and people in the church, and the police - what do you say to them! its bad parenting!
This situation would have been completely different if a member of network rail staff member or any other visitor to the site in question had been injured in this way through this negligence.
.....AND i can't see a network rail employee sneaking through a fence then riffling through a skip then setting some rubbish on fire then throwing explosives on said fire....can you..? bringing something like this on yourself is not what i would class as negligence either....if it was Network rail would he held up over the coals but they wasn't just got a cheeky ticking off over a storage issue.
Beth the original one
says...
5:15pm Wed 6 Mar 13
DogsMessInLeigh wrote:youre wasting your breath, she is the type of parent who expects everyone else to take responsibility for her offsprings actions
celiaw wrote:You think wrong....and MP's the Pope and the Police are grown ups and not 16 year olds and i can't see the pope making a camp fire with his skating buddys somehow....
Do any of you who have commented my post have children - I think not!
What is good parenting, we all hold different values - we hope that children abide by rules, respect others and be polite etc, but children are children and when you cannot be with them 24-7. Even adults who hold postitions of trust who we vote in to represent us dont follow these rules do they! look at the MP's, the Pope, and people in the church, and the police - what do you say to them! its bad parenting!
This situation would have been completely different if a member of network rail staff member or any other visitor to the site in question had been injured in this way through this negligence.
.....AND i can't see a network rail employee sneaking through a fence then riffling through a skip then setting some rubbish on fire then throwing explosives on said fire....can you..? bringing something like this on yourself is not what i would class as negligence either....if it was Network rail would he held up over the coals but they wasn't just got a cheeky ticking off over a storage issue.
celiaw
says...
3:40pm Thu 7 Mar 13
Beth the original one
says...
10:24am Fri 8 Mar 13
As you say its free speech and mine is what i have read of your statements, The funny thing is your opinion is blaming british rail, when the FACTS clearly state that the teenager trespassed, stole and set fire to things, please enlighten me as to how that is british rails fault. i dont give a **** whether something was secure or not. the facts are he broke 3 lots of laws and you blame british rail, at no point did british rail force him to do any of the above. that is why i question your parenting skills.
Carnabackable says...
5:57pm Wed 27 Feb 13